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Proposal: remove FMR. Thread is locked

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Tuffty
Jan
fmod Member
2003

Tuffty

Forum Moderator Posts: 152,160 Ruby Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mrs Ana said :

However, I still think that some sort of a better communication method would help. I understand that they are not required to respond, but communication is key. If a regular player is allowed to ask for further clarifications, wouldn't it be easier to simply clarify in the beginning rather than having the player go back to Forum Help to ask the question? For example, there are times that posts get hidden with no action, for whatever reason. If the FMod in question would say, "Hey, xxxx, your post was hidden and forwarded to CM Nick for further consideration. Please me patient."

Or, something like, "Hey, xxxx, your post was hidden because no action was required from FMods. If you disagree, you are more than welcome to use FMR." As we all know, no matter what the response from FMods is, the player in question is still most likely going to use FMR anyway. So, if this is the case, wouldn't it be easier to see that the FMods are actually reading and responding to your concerns in Forum Help if the reports merits a direct re

This happens now and has done for years.

If a F-Mod gets stuck with an issue and yes we do get stuck the post is hidden and then we ask for assistance. It's often posted on FH that it's been passed along for further review. So it's been going on like that for years. So no need to change that as it's working still today. ;) Comprehensive Account Security
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02-Nov-2021 13:55:21

Mrs Ana

Mrs Ana

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@Tuffty:

That's why I said that there are times when posts get hidden with no response from FMods at all. The response comes AFTER someone posts again asking why their report wasn't actioned. As an example, see Twillow's response after a regular player had to ask why their post wasn't actioned. If the FMod who hid this player's post in the beginning had said something like, "Hey, xxxx, your post has been escalated to CM Nick for consideration", I am sure that the player 1) didn't have to post again and 2) no other FMod had to respond to their follow-up concern.

At the end, I commend CM Nick's response because the player in question is being heard. It doesn't matter if the outcome is not a satisfactory one to the player's concern. What they care about is that they are being listened to. This is what I am trying to get at. I know that you guys have been doing this for years, but my prior suggestion and comments relied on the fact that some posts get hidden without an immediate response to the player, which then prompts the player to post again asking for clarification.

All in all, if the FMod would alert you immediately that the post was hidden either because no action was merited or because it needed escalation, I am sure that those individuals wouldn't have to post again asking for clarifications/explanations. Yes, I understand that there is the possibility of posting to FMR, but someone can and will post there, with or without a response from an FMod.

I never said that it had to "change". I suggested that it should be improved to avoid confusion and provide more clarity and assurance to the community that their reports and/or concerns are being heard and addressed, if appropriate, by the FMods. That's all I am wishing to accomplish here. A little more communication.

02-Nov-2021 14:27:30 - Last edited on 02-Nov-2021 14:28:00 by Mrs Ana

Mrs Ana

Mrs Ana

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Mr Brushie said :
Most, if not all, of those people no longer even work at Jagex. Ah, just saw this response.

Well, yes, that's correct; however, you left the most important part out:
Mrs Ana said :
For historical reference , when this version of FMR was active starting on January 4th, 2016 through May 21st, 2018, Forum Moderation Review , we
had
the following Jagex Moderators responding to reports there :) : I was trying to provide proof that it was never and it's never just one person that looks after FMR. I went back in time to reference that version of FMR, which rant from January 4th, 2016 through May 21st, 2018 to show that eight distinct members of Community Management reviewed reports and concerns in that specific version of FMR :) .

02-Nov-2021 14:44:29

Mrs Ana

Mrs Ana

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@Tuffty:

I ran out of space above to add the example below:

The other day, I came across an offensive account name here on the Forums. I went ahead to report it to Forum Help. Right after the report was hidden, CM Nick responded with the following:

CM Nick said :
Mrs. Ana - thanks for the highlight! Passing that on. THAT'S the kind of transparency and communication that I am referencing in all of my comments and opinions on the matter. If I hadn't received a response -- it didn't have to be from CM Nick -- don't you believe that I would have been wondering if it was actually seen and/or actioned/escalated or the like? I agree that not all reports made to Forum Help merit a response. We all concur on that.

However, if a report is hidden with no visible responses or actions -- either because none was needed or because it needed further review/escalation from either CM Nick or a Jagex Moderator -- then I personally believe that the FMod in question should add a note letting the player know of the status of their concerns. For example, if my report gets actioned, I don't need a response. That's obvious.

I enjoy communication and I think that it's paramount to be able to communicate among ourselves to improve the quality of the Forums and to avoid confusion. Additionally, being able to effectively convey one's concerns and that they are actually being heard can only bring positive outcomes to everyone involved.

That's all I am getting at :) .

02-Nov-2021 14:55:20

Tuffty
Jan
fmod Member
2003

Tuffty

Forum Moderator Posts: 152,160 Ruby Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mrs Ana said :
I was trying to provide proof that it was never and it's never just one person that looks after FMR. I went back in time to reference that version of FMR, which rant from January 4th, 2016 through May 21st, 2018 to show that eight distinct members of Community Management reviewed reports and concerns in that specific version of FMR :) .

Back then there were more staff. Mod Kari took over and was lumbered with it. Sadly her duties sometimes were full of other things and Review was left for weeks, months on end. :(

She's left now and handed it over to 2 members of staff. So fingers crossed 1 or the other will have time to deal with it on a more regular basis.

Also Yes the offensive names get a reply as they have been sent up for review. CM Nick left a reply the same as any F-Mod would have left it. We leave replies like that to let the reporter know it was passed along. Done that for years and years.

I get what you are saying but you want us to do something we are doing all ready and have done for years. ;)

I also think were going a bit off track here and wondering towards Forum Help ideas and suggestions. Lets remember this is about Review and how Jagex can improve it for the Community. ;) Comprehensive Account Security
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02-Nov-2021 15:09:51 - Last edited on 02-Nov-2021 15:12:44 by Tuffty

Theos
Aug
fmod Member
2008

Theos

Forum Moderator Posts: 23,574 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I agree with Arch that removing FMR, and implementing some type of ticket system or email address for handling forum escalations seems like a logical and much needed solution. I'm all for this as a solution *if* the escalations are processed within 3-5 business days. I think that there's been a staffing issue for many years with Community J-Mods having forum responsibilities being less than 10% of their job responsibilities (possibly 5%) making it near impossible for that thread to be properly managed. Another, essential change needed along with this is a commitment from Jagex or allocating a greater portion of a staff member's job to consist of forum management. Then again, over the years we've seen Jagex engage more and more with Twitter, Discord, and Reddit platforms and less with the RSOF.

If this isn't a possibility(removal of FMR and implementation of a new ticket or email system), I think the CM/LMods should be finally given access to J-Mod accounts or have their account type changed to where they can autohide and review hidden posts on that thread as well as be given other necessary tools to handle the housekeeping. The LMods can very easily keep up with FMR review, however, they've gone years without being given the necessary tools they need to do so.
Forum Moderator

02-Nov-2021 16:45:22

Mrs Ana

Mrs Ana

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Tuffty said :
Back then there were more staff. Mod Kari took over and was lumbered with it. Sadly her duties sometimes were full of other things and Review was left for weeks, months on end. :( Again, as I said earlier, I was trying to prove the fact that it's never one person that may be assigned to FMR. I do remember we had over 25 members of Community Management and easily, 1,000+ active members at any given time. I'm fully aware of those times, Tuffty ;) . Even though Mod Kari was the only one responding to FMR reports during her time here with us, Mod Hooli could have technically responded as well, even though he never did and never has. Mod Balance -- Head of Community during his tenure -- regularly looked after FMR. This is the main point that I tried to convey.
===
Tuffty said :
I also think were going a bit off track here and wondering towards Forum Help ideas and suggestions. Lets remember this is about Review and how Jagex can improve it for the Community. ;) Yea, sure, I can heed to your advice; however, please remember that you were the one that brought up Forum Help here ;) .

02-Nov-2021 17:12:26 - Last edited on 02-Nov-2021 17:14:24 by Mrs Ana

Mrs Ana

Mrs Ana

Posts: 8,998 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Theos:

That was the original plan, as outlined here: New JMods coming through! . This was posted back on September 7th, 2018 and those LMods (back then) were supposed to get their J-Mod accounts a week after that, so, specifically, by September 14th, 2018. It has been 3 years and almost two months since then. Furthermore, according to this post by Mod Cam, those responsible for getting the LMods their J-Mod accounts were on holiday at that time.

I know that CM Nick has been very vocal throughout the years since his first day of work and I wholeheartedly appreciate that. He's also around answering questions regarding what he does and has been very adamant about the fact that he'd love to look after FMR if given the chance to do so. Sadly, though, it hasn't been possible, for whatever reason(s).

The Community Inbox is already checked by CMs so it shouldn't be that hard.

02-Nov-2021 17:37:52

Mrs Ana

Mrs Ana

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Tuffty, do you have any opinions on the idea presented here by Nubby Nubnub? When I suggested that we have seasoned FMods like yourself and Tren check on one another a few years ago as an alternative to FMR, you were one of the persons that rejected the idea because it'd cause conflicts and confusions. Furthermore, I'm sure that feelings would also be involved and reviewing FMR would become subjective rather than objective .

What are your thoughts on having Forum Moderators see the contents of the reports made against them, even though they will not review it, as suggested by Nubby Nubnub on this same thread?

02-Nov-2021 18:20:02 - Last edited on 02-Nov-2021 18:22:43 by Mrs Ana

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