RuneScape Forum Archive | Did Forum Mods Kill Forums?

Feb

2005

Joel

Forum Moderator Posts: 32,973 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I'll repeat what I said the first time, we as Forum Moderators cannot on a whim make up a rule and then randomly decide to enforce it. Any such instance of a rule change means there would have been a decision from Jagex to pivot one way or another in dealing with a particular situation.

We have a very limited amount of space in which to exercise judgement in given situations and it certainly doesn't include the ability to adhoc change the rules as we (FMods) deem fit.

An FMod also can't go rogue (whether it be one or many) and do whatever they like (e.g changing the rules, banning players with no justification etc) because such a situation would have quickly been identified by Jagex themselves or through FMod Review reports submitted by players. Any such scenarios in which we've acted incorrectly (outside of the guidelines we're given by Jagex) historically would be corrected by a JMod via FMR.

You even just admitted yourself that Jagex have final say on everything, so ANY input we as a team or individual FMods would make to Jagex wouldn't be acted upon unless consensus was reached by the entire team and more importantly, Jagex.

And when I say Jagex, it usually wouldn't be an individual JMod either, it would usually trigger some sort of internal meeting or discussion between staff.

As a last note, any final decision from Jagex (which you've just acknowledged happens and is the case) would supersede any discussion or input from the FMod team anyway.

Joel

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09-Aug-2022 21:33:27

Sep

2011

Loki

Posts: 65,226 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Pis2ols said :
... You're acting like if the FMod team were to be replace, those 100K+ users would come to the forums. That simply wouldn't happen, even if the current FMod team disappeared.

The reason these forums are dead, are very simple;
1. Lack of JMod presence. The reason these were once popular, is because you'd see 10, 20, 30+ gold posts a day throughout different subforums. They've all gone to social media.

2. These forums are lacking several QoL updates, and so they've fallen behind in times.

3. It's so much easier to log in, and post/share what you want on social media. The forums are a pain in the ass to log into, hence why people left.

The main reason people have issues with FMods, and I'm also guilty of this in the past, is because they act upon the actual rules of the forums, and it may be something you disagree on, which in this case, you do.

Also, discussion hasn't been closed on the forums?? Many subforums are still active. Discussion on posts on ID threads have been stopped, because the purpose of those threads is for people to find prices on. I'm sure many others have 0 interest in searching through loads of discussion posts just to find a price.

• »‡« •
Adam
• »‡« •

Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts.

09-Aug-2022 21:42:54

Sep

2011

Loki

Posts: 65,226 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Pis2ols said :
it's not surprising that one of the last 30-40 users would advocate for such. Also, you know nothing of me and my dedication and love for these forums for over 10 years. I've made several threads to try and revialise them, encourage discussion, have changes, etc. I'm sure there's at least a couple of others who could attest to that. I'm also not the only person like this. Many, many others who still post here, and not just in a single subforum, but multiple are dedicated to this community, and no matter how much activity there is, will continue to remain here until the day Jagex choose to shut these forums down.

Pis2ols said :
[This rule was suggested, made, then enforced by a Forum Mod. Jagex Mods have the final say but these rules in specific were initially created by a forum mod. Also, FMods are players first and foremost, with their FMod position coming second. So, such an FMod is entitled to make a suggestion, just like the rest of us. The background of their post has 0 affect to this. I wasn't around for the discussion (I don't think? I honestly can't remember lol), but if it was somewhat popular among the people at the time, then yes, the FMod would pass along a suggestion to be discussed within their forums and the rest of the FMod team. If they came up with ideas, then they would pass it along to Jagex to review, and provide their opinion.

• »‡« •
Adam
• »‡« •

Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts.

09-Aug-2022 21:49:16

Dec

2023

Pis2ols

Posts: 1,648 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Joel said :
I'll repeat what I said the first time, we as Forum Moderators cannot on a whim make up a rule and then randomly decide to enforce it. Any such instance of a rule change means there would have been a decision from Jagex to pivot one way or another in dealing with a particular situation.

Here's where I respectfully disagree with you. Right now, we're scapegoating Jagex Mods for agreeing to a final policy that a Forum Mod created as Jagex Mods understandably aren't active in Forums anymore.

From this specific process as an example:

-> Forum Mod creates a policy banning mentioning FCs in comments, despite this being

around for 10 years.

-> Forum Mod continues to remove any comments, telling you go to Forum Moderation review if you disagree.

-> You wait for 1 month for a Jagex Mod to reply and potentially side with the forum mod, making it an official rule.

Jagex Mods didn't go out of their way to create or enforce a new rule in this instance, a Forum Mod did. There's no instance here where a Jagex Mod X went out of their way to ban mentioning Friends Chat in a comment.

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09-Aug-2022 22:10:19 - Last edited on 09-Aug-2022 22:10:56 by Pis2ols

Dec

2023

Pis2ols

Posts: 1,648 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Loki said :
Pis2ols said :
it's not surprising that one of the last 30-40 users would advocate for such. Also, you know nothing of me and my dedication and love for these forums for over 10 years. I've made several threads to try and revialise them, encourage discussion, have changes, etc.

I'm not questioning your dedication, I disagree with the general premise that one should find reasons to shut down the exchange of ideas.

Forums should have been a meeting place for open discussion but most people agree that its not the case anymore. Locking this thread would just prove this point further.

_

I've been around forums for awhile and I would argue that several rules started by a Forum Mod has lead to the death of discussion and subsequently the decline of RuneScape forums.

By pointing out these things, hopefully

we can find something that can be done

to revitalize this place.

Things I've mentioned so far to help forums:
-> Reversal of several policies that killed discussion
-> Shifting Moderation Styles or Moderation team Members

In this thread, I feel like I've already went out to demonstrate that the death of forums was not mainly because of

- Jagex Mod presence
- Outdated Posting Styles

but the moderation team and rules currently in place. There are no Jagex Moderators in my community currently but it's still thriving.

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09-Aug-2022 22:18:01 - Last edited on 09-Aug-2022 22:23:34 by Pis2ols

Jul

2019

Wilf

Posts: 17,032 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I agree mods have taken liberties over the years with regards to what they think should be removed.

Just say some users might find it offensive/upsetting. GL disproving that.

I wonder if there is a catch all in the guidlines like the one that used to be in CoC (which as we can see is very very sparse of rules)

09-Aug-2022 22:23:04 - Last edited on 09-Aug-2022 22:29:34 by Wilf

Miu

Posts: 16,950 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Pis2ols said :
Things I've mentioned so far to help forums:
-> Reversal of several policies that killed discussion
-> Shifting Moderation Styles or Moderation team Members

What discussion? You only care about item price check threads. What is there to discuss? "I think halloween masks are gonna go up because halloween is in two months!" Secondly, how is having a FC available going to revitalize discussion? That would shift any "discussion" to in-game instead of on the forums, undermining your own point.

For whatever reason, JAGEX, not FMODS, has decided to prohibit players from these activities. Why? Price manipulation, probably. Is it heavy-handed? Maybe. But maybe it's justified.

Does it affect the rest of the forums? Not really.

Pis2ols said :
In this thread, I feel like I've already went out to demonstrate that the death of forums was not mainly because of

- Jagex Mod presence
- Outdated Posting Styles

but the moderation team and rules currently in place. There are no Jagex Moderators in my community currently but it's still thriving.

You haven't demonstrated anything except vitriol towards fmods in your subforum and care nothing about the forums at large. If your community is thriving so much then why do you even need a presence on the official forums? If you care so much about open discussion, then why obfuscate the topic of your thread rather than being open about the issues in item discussion from the opening post?

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09-Aug-2022 22:44:52

Miu

Posts: 16,950 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I would recommend making a new thread that offers constructive criticism towards the moderation in the item discussion forum instead of trying to blame FMods.

Communicate the needs of your community and see where the problems lie, see if there's any solution that can be had. If there's specific FMod post examples of rules being implemented, link to the post so people have context for what you're talking about.

Original message details are unavailable.
Item Discussion Rules

What is the Item Discussion Forum for?

This forum can be used to discuss any in-game items. You could use it for price checks and also post where players can find items.

FAQ

Can I sell my items here?
Please use the Marketplace Forums. Players only want to discuss items in this forum.

Can I say that my item is worth more than it is?
No – this is called price manipulation and is a permanent ban offence. Make sure you are honest about the prices you pay for or sell items at.

Someone here has said that their item is worth more than I think it is
We cannot endorse the prices listed in this forum, so you should not fully trust anything you see listed without doing your own research prior.

What if I think the moderators are wrong?
Forum moderators are hand-picked by Jagex and will make decisions based on their training and game knowledge. Though those decisions may not reflect what you think, their actions are on behalf of Jagex, and are therefore final.

For example, the first complaint you could have right here, is that there's no rule against FCs in item checking threads. Players can't be expected to follow rules that aren't even written anywhere. If it is a rule, let's find out why . Maybe it was an FC that was focusing on advertising that, instead of just a FC mention once or twice in a bunch of posts. Maybe the FMod is wrong.

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09-Aug-2022 22:58:49

Dec

2023

Pis2ols

Posts: 1,648 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Miu said :

What discussion? Secondly, how is having a FC available going to revitalize discussion? That would shift any "discussion" to in-game instead of on the forums, undermining your own point.

Think you're misunderstanding the point here, RuneScape Forums was a way friends chats and clans could discuss things and post prices. Having organized communities use Forums was one of the ways we increased popularity. Item Discussion forums is one of the most popular forum threads by traffic.

There used to be 15 posts underneath a thread, such as SoF/TH rares and now there's 1 update per 1-5 days.

This was solely attributed to a lack of a friends chats or communities posting. The rules blacklisting Friends Chats/Clans from being mentioned in posts killed off the communities alongside the threads that each community helped to run.

People moved to other places such as my FC or Discord, or other websites because people couldn't discuss things anymore, let alone price check.

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09-Aug-2022 23:48:10 - Last edited on 09-Aug-2022 23:51:24 by Pis2ols

Dec

2023

Pis2ols

Posts: 1,648 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Miu said :

You haven't demonstrated anything except vitriol towards fmods in your subforum and care nothing about the forums at large. If your community is thriving so much then why do you even need a presence on the official forums? If you care so much about open discussion, then why obfuscate the topic of your thread rather than being open about the issues in item discussion from the opening post?

This place is called "Website and Forums Discussion - Issues and Feedback". You're mischaracterizing the purpose of the thread, I have no vitriol towards the whole FMod team, there's forum mods in my community as well. I'm describing the actions that a forum moderator took that led to the demise of one of the most popular forum threads that made people use RSoF.

One of the main reasons I created my community was to demonstrate that an item discussion community can thrive under a different moderation team. By traffic alone, I've demonstrated that. There's also no Jagex Mods in my community, so "lack of yellow crown" was also not a main reason why RuneScape forums died as well.

You're also right that our community doesn't need RuneScape forums. I could just leave this thing alone and let it die from over-moderation and terrible rules. I created this thread to bring attention to the main problems that killed forums (over-moderation and rules set by Forum Mods), and to see if we address these issues to make forums popular again.

_

As one example already, open discussion such as this post already has 80 posts in 2 weeks. People can disagree but forums thrives on the exchange of ideas. Finding excuses to lock a thread is basically the culmination of everything wrong with forums.

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09-Aug-2022 23:51:06 - Last edited on 10-Aug-2022 00:01:33 by Pis2ols