RuneScape Forum Archive | Forum Help Accountability

Jul

2019

Wilf

Posts: 17,032 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

People have been looking for an alternatvie to the forums for years before Shauny.

Off Topic Community
Off Topic Lounge
Real Rants
General Lounge

Four off site forums set up by regular forumers from those sections. Also had some Fmods as members as well.

In the case of the Off Topic Community, which was a few years before the others it was because the rules were very oppressive and a campaign that resulted in bans for a few users led to Mod Poppy/Emilee creating the Chat lounge in Off Topic. Prior to that you couldn't have a conversation on the forums without having your posts hidden.

This oppressive nature continued for years and some of the prominent mods from back then are still mods now, some of these mods regularly tout the line of we should be thankful for what we've got becasue in the past the rules were harsher.

This is why the moderator team has always and always will be seen as a forum police who seem to enjoy nothing more than enforcing rules no matter how stupid they are. Then you've the fact that they're taking action based on rules they've made up/we can't even see and are somehow supposed to be aware of them.

The manner in which some address users is also contentious and things are said with an air of certaintiy that's come from years of being backed up by jagex.

Take the mod who was removed last year despite complaints about them going on for many years they posted with such self assurance that jagex has no problem with them and even if jagex were to remove them they'd keep posting because they care about the forums. Unless they're using an alt the've never posted since.

If this change had happend before then then this mod would be still around and actually contributing to reviews.

Honestly the fact Alex unlocked a thread not two days after the fmods had reviewed it as a group tells you everything you need to know then again out of the entire team how many are actually active regularly enough to take part in these reviews?

09-Feb-2022 18:58:51 - Last edited on 26-Mar-2022 20:03:56 by Wilf

Mar

2006

Immortalized

Posts: 34,061 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Mrs Ana said :
Hey, Immortalized.

Back in June of 2021, I created a thread with a similar suggestion as yours Forum Help V2.: Communication ; however, the idea wasn't well-received so I decided to give it a lock. Archaeox's post on that thread of mine does point out a potential flaw in this idea, though.

I do not want to bombard your thread with my responses regarding this topic, but I am going to quote what I added on Archaeox's thread because it's related

:

Response #1
Response #2
Response #3

Let me know what your thoughts are ^_^

. I have read these and agree with your thoughts. I don't really see how it is right that you can submit a report and see that it was received but not get any notification of whether or not it will be fulfilled or not, or if it's processing. Sure you can ask, but this is something that I believe we shouldn't have to do, and let's just say you asked and it was still processing, when do you know if it was processed or not? Will the FMods who are still working it let you know, or will you be forced to ask again, potentially bringing ire on yourself because you have disobeyed the "asking rule" by asking more than one post? This kind of system is not really working correctly in my opinion, no one should have to feel like their report is being ignored and have to "ask" if someone is working on it, come on now. Buy Zemomarks / Chromatic Partyhats safely here

09-Feb-2022 19:15:35

Mar

2006

Immortalized

Posts: 34,061 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Loki said :
I'd have to disagree to be honest. Some things that get reported on FH are simple title changes or locking gravebumped threads. Forcing FMods to have to post responses to reports like this is just a waste of time for them.

As the thread already states, if someone wants clarification, then they can ask for it. I can't comment for the green team, but having seen most of them in action in the past, I'm sure they wouldn't mind explaining their decision for action, or lack of action, as long as it's within their guidelines to reveal their action. I see your point for the small things that don't need confirmation. However in my opinion anything that is not acted on should at very least receive a response. If there is no response but you see an action was made, then you are OK, because you know it was processed. If you see nothing done and have no notice of why, then you are in the gray area where you just don't know if your report was not processed or someone decided it was not worth performing anything on. I'm not really thinking that pestering FMods every time why they didn't do X is really something that will net me positive results in the long run. I think if anything that would just make you a person that FMods get annoyed at and have less enthusiasm about helping. Buy Zemomarks / Chromatic Partyhats safely here

09-Feb-2022 19:19:35

Mar

2006

Immortalized

Posts: 34,061 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Rooh said :
There's also a potential downside to leaving detailed replies about other reports:
"FH Stalking". Unfortunately this already happens regardless. It is not hard to monitor FH for posts and capture people submitting them since posts are not hidden by default. Even when submitting a post I sometimes see other reports people have made and surf there. I don't think that we should act like submitting a report is a private act because it's only private when a FMod hides your post. Plus you can go to the profile of someone who has recently posted on your thread and see if they made a recent post on FH and draw connections. I have done this several times when I see FMods replying to some of my threads, it is not hard to identify who is the person reporting you. Not that I am stalking, just this information is inherently not private by the way the forums work, so I don't think it's worth trying to upkeep that sense of privacy.

Also, I see FMods addressing players all the time on FH, especially in ways that in my opinion do not protect their privacy. For example when some players submit bad reports I have seen in the past them being called out and replied to in a dismissive way that is public for everyone to see and in a manner that they cannot even reply to the FMod. So my opinion is that this idea is not even used in practice, sometimes FMods just address you and let everyone know reading the thread you submitted a report, sometimes even giving you a chide rebuttal (as I have seen a long time ago) for submitting the report. That is a separate issue entirely but I can see that protecting the privacy of those who submit reports is also something selectively done.

There are ways around this too, e.g. just say "to the person who reported X", instead of addressing them by name. Personally I have seen FMod replies provided before FMR even existed that made me raise eyebrows because a supposedly private report becomes public. Buy Zemomarks / Chromatic Partyhats safely here

09-Feb-2022 19:25:55

Dec

2011

Draco Burnz

Posts: 79,296 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Loki said :
I'd have to disagree to be honest. Some things that get reported on FH are simple title changes or locking gravebumped threads. Forcing FMods to have to post responses to reports like this is just a waste of time for them.

As the thread already states, if someone wants clarification, then they can ask for it. I can't comment for the green team, but having seen most of them in action in the past, I'm sure they wouldn't mind explaining their decision for action, or lack of action, as long as it's within their guidelines to reveal their action.

Have to agree here.

No support.

Draco Burnz

Anime Fanatic

Defender of the logical

10-Feb-2022 03:14:45

Jan

2003

Tuffty

Forum Moderator Posts: 152,160 Ruby Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Ok I had a think about this issue and your report on the Forum Help thread.

It was Me who took no action. Yep I'll stick my hand up and say it was Me. I've nothing to hide here or to gain anything. Felt no action was needed as per our guidelines.

So lets get to the point.

You made a report on Forum Help. You asked for a post to be removed for:-

Summary of issue: Harassing and flame-bating.

Your words.

I checked and saw nothing wrong with said post you were reporting so no action was taken. I/We can't just remove posts because you have a bad history with someone and don't want to see their replies. Well above our pay grade. Won't ever be done. It seems you have a history with said person and at times want his/her comments stifled. Best to just ignore them instead.

Now as a general rule of thumb anyone baffled by the lack of action or an action taken by a F-Mod you can have 1 more message post on Forum Help asking why no action etc was taken. That has been there for years and the F-Mods are more then happy to explain whats happening. We have done that for years and still do it to this day. Disclaimer. Could be a few days for a reply as we need to find out which F-Mod hid the report.

Now this thread you made here. I've read it and can't understand why you want things to change. It's working well and has done for years. F-Mods don't reply to every single report on FH as Rooh has said all ready. No point for a simple lock or title change or say we removed a few spam posts etc. We reply on the thread instead if and when it's needed. At times We leave no message on the thread because the person requested we do not post on their. So a reply is left on the Forum Help thread. Again been done for years and still happens today.

Now this next bit you won't like but it is our Procedure. Still active to this day. If you feel an injustice was done then you can use the Review thread.

Run out of space now.

Comprehensive Account Security

What do snowmen have for breakfast? Snowflakes!

10-Feb-2022 12:17:44

Dec

2011

Archaeox

Posts: 53,399 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Tuffty said :
Now this next bit you won't like but it is our Procedure. Still active to this day. If you feel an injustice was done then you can use the Review thread.
LOL!
Sorry Tuffty, but you need to keep up with this thread

Right now FMR is running over
THREE MONTHS
without a response. That's e even worse than the issue this thread is complaining about. Don't be disingenuous by suggesting anyone use it.

~~~~ Just another victim of the ambient morality ~~~~

~~ Founder of the Caped Carousers quest cape clan ~~

!! Slava Ukraini - heroyam slava !!

10-Feb-2022 16:08:51

Mrs Ana

Posts: 8,998 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Immortalized said :
I have read these and agree with your thoughts. I don't really see how it is right that you can submit a report and see that it was received but not get any notification of whether or not it will be fulfilled or not, or if it's processing. Sure you can ask, but this is something that I believe we shouldn't have to do, and let's just say you asked and it was still processing, when do you know if it was processed or not? Will the FMods who are still working it let you know, or will you be forced to ask again, potentially bringing ire on yourself because you have disobeyed the "asking rule" by asking more than one post? This kind of system is not really working correctly in my opinion, no one should have to feel like their report is being ignored and have to "ask" if someone is working on it, come on now. I completely concur. If I report something and no action is taken, I'd appreciate if the F-Mod looking at it would say something like, "Hey, your report didn't merit any action due to x and y." I do agree with the fact that doing so MAY create an unnecessary scenario where the player in question may go back and forth with the F-Mod; however, this has always been possible.

10-Feb-2022 16:20:20

Mrs Ana

Posts: 8,998 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Tuffty said :
Now this thread you made here. I've read it and can't understand why you want things to change . It's working well and has done for years. It's paramount to state that if you had taken the liberty to share your explanation with OP right after their report in Forum Help, this thread wouldn't have been created and we wouldn't be here discussing something that can be easily remedied. You had no problem in posting here to give OP a clarification regarding their concerns, so may I pretty please ask you: don't you believe that it would have been better to do so right after you hid OP's post in Forum Help to explicate your lack of action to their report?

"Hey, Immortalized.

Regarding your latest report to Forum Help:

I checked and saw nothing wrong with said post you were reporting so no action was taken. I/We can't just remove posts because you have a bad history with someone and don't want to see their replies. Well above our pay grade. Won't ever be done. It seems you have a history with said person and at times want his/her comments stifled. Best to just ignore them instead."

If you do not wish to name the name to protect their privacy and contents of their reports, then you may just reference the page and post number in Forum Help, as it has been done countless of times before by other Forum Moderators. I am sure that this has been done to 1) safeguard their identity and 2) to decrease the probability of players deciphering who made the report and who was reported.

Now, if someone really wanted to investigate, then they can easily search for someone's reports in Forum Help by going through their personal profile and seeing the timestamp on the post. I'm sure that you can take it from there.

As an example of what I am referring to, please see Tren's response to a report below:

Tren's response

10-Feb-2022 16:45:25

Mrs Ana

Posts: 8,998 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Tuffty said :
Now as a general rule of thumb anyone baffled by the lack of action or an action taken by a F-Mod you can have 1 more message post on Forum Help asking why no action etc was taken. That has been there for years and the F-Mods are more then happy to explain whats happening. This all could be avoided if whomever hid the post without an action provided brief details as to why no action was merited. Nobody is asking for a paragraph nor an essay. If I were in that situation, I would be content with a sentence or two. It'd avoid headaches, further posts in Forum Help to either report the same situation again AND/OR to seek further clarification.

Let's create this scenario:

Player A reports a thread to Forum Help. A specific F-Mod hides the post. Player A is perplexed because they thought an action was called for. Player A waits a while to see if something changes. Player A is now confused and wondering why their report was not carried out, according to their standards .

Player A, not knowing that they can ask for clarification (most people do not read the contents of the first page of Forum Help), posts the same report again. The same or a different F-Mod hides the post. Player A is now even more confused because the thread that was reported is still standing.

Player A goes to create a thread to question the F-Mod's actions or lack thereof. Player A's thread gets locked because they are contesting the actions (or lack thereof) of an F-Mod. The F-Mod who locks the thread advises Player A to use FMR. Player A now has to wait MONTHS to get an answer (or maybe not) as to why their report was not well-received in Forum Help.

ALL of the above CAN and should be avoided by a brief explanation, Tuffty. If F-Mods are more than happy to explain what's happening, as you said above, why is it that someone has to resort to ASKING YOU why their report was hidden without an action? That's extremely unnecessary.

10-Feb-2022 16:45:32

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