RuneScape Forum Archive | Forum Help Accountability

May

2011

Kathy

Forum Moderator Posts: 20,217 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Just passing along and stumbled upon this thread. Not much more for me to say that has not already been said by my other colleagues.

All reports on Forum Help are reviewed by F-Mods and L-Mods. If a post has been hidden and NO action was taken, that would mean it was looked into and the moderator has determined that no action was needed. I'm not sure why something like that would need to be highlighted.

Now, you are indeed welcome to ask why was an action taken/not taken ONCE on Forum Help, however, it is not meant to be a discussion thread if the moderator's response does not satisfy the user. That would be where FMR comes in, which is handled by J-Mods. You could post there and Staff can review the issue if you were to disagree.

I see very little need to answer every single post actioned/not actioned. I think things are fine as they are now.

Just my 2 cents.
• Kathy •

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Sailor Neptune

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Forum Community Helper

12-Feb-2022 16:28:03

Apr

2012

Spearmint30

Posts: 23,350 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I completely agree with Kathy and believe that there isn't much to gain from requiring FMods to respond to unactioned reports. Making a report and finding no action was taken does not necessarily mean to never report any such things again in the future - I think that outlook is quite extreme. Also, regarding this concern here: Immortalized said :
I think the underlying issue is "selective enforcement" of rules. I do not see where requiring such responses curves any "selective enforcement", either legitimate or perceived. These types of concerns would be good for FMR.

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Spearmint30

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Food scientists have finally managed to remove the mint flavor from gum! The ex-spearmint was a success!

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12-Feb-2022 17:27:23

Jul

2019

Wilf

Posts: 17,032 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

The person reporting thinks there is an issue, and perhaps explaining why there isn't would be courteous.. I mean you know why you haven't taken an action so why not post it.

Just because you don't have to doesn't mean you shouldn't. Clearly Kari's efforts to improve customer service from the fmods has failed ( who would have thought).

12-Feb-2022 18:17:41 - Last edited on 12-Feb-2022 21:13:36 by Wilf

May

2011

Kathy

Forum Moderator Posts: 20,217 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Wilf said :
Clearly Kari's efforts to improve customer service from the fmods has failed ( who would have thought).

Just to address your post, the OP is not talking about customer service. "Customer Service" from Forum Moderators implies that the F-Mod team is employed by Jagex. As a reminder, F-Mods are not paid to do this by Jagex. This is a volunteer role. I think what you want is transparency. I don't see how answering all incoming posts addresses that.

From the first post on Forum Help:

Mod Kari said :
Posting on this thread does not guarantee a response, but all reports will be reviewed and any necessary action will be taken.

Mod Kari said :
Need an explanation or clarification?
- If you don't understand the action that was taken or not taken, you can ask for an explanation or clarification. Depending on the time and context, this will be done as promptly as it can be, but please be patient.
However, you can only do this once per issue, if you continue to post, this will be considered a misuse of this thread.

Wilf said :
The person reporting thinks there is an issue, and perhaps explaining why there isn't would be courteous.. I mean you know why you haven't taken an action so why not post it.

Please see Mod Kari's post above. If someone is seeking clarification, they are welcome to post on the Forum Help thread ONCE to ask about the issue since Forum Help is not the place to air disagreement. That is what FMR is intended for. If you disagree with a F-Mod's action or lack of action, that is the correct place to post so that a J-Mod can look into it.

Forum Help also states that a response is NOT guaranteed. If something is unclear to an F-Mod or desired title doesn't fit etc., an F-Mod WILL respond. But I see no need to post for every post. That is just unnecessary.
• Kathy •

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Sailor Neptune

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12-Feb-2022 21:35:56 - Last edited on 12-Feb-2022 21:38:47 by Kathy

Jul

2019

Wilf

Posts: 17,032 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

No, I think they're wanting a better service from the mods ie a post telling them why no action was taken.

"I think moderators on Forum Help should be required to reply to each report."

I agree every post is a bit much but when no action is taken I can't see any problem with posting why nothing happened without it being requested. Good customer service. I'd like to think you're volunteering to help us the foruming community rather than jagex.

Thing that gets me is if jagex asked it of the mod team I imagine you'd all just do it without complaint. Am I right?

12-Feb-2022 23:46:19

Apr

2012

Spearmint30

Posts: 23,350 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Wilf said :
No, I think they're wanting a better service from the mods ie a post telling them why no action was taken. We're just not entitled to it. Should we all also get messages from Jagex about our in-game reports that result in no action? Granted that on the Forums we report issues to FMods and in-game we don't report issues to PMods, but the general idea is the same.

Wilf said :
I agree every post is a bit much but when no action is taken I can't see any problem with posting why nothing happened without it being requested. The biggest "problem" I can see is that such feedback will give even more insight for potential trolls to further deduce FMod guidelines and procedures. Those of us that have been around a while know the obvious things that are going to get locked, hidden, moved, or result in a forum mute. If I report something to Forum Help and it's not actioned, I don't need to know why . It's not for me to know. I reported it to good hands and what is done with my report after that isn't my business any longer. I am not entitled to a "We've received your report, however no action is taken because..." What is that information going to do for me? Yeah, I'll know more details about my report, but are we expecting that we'll occasionally get some feedback in return that is going to vastly change the way we forum? Or are we just being a little nosey and wanting a sense of transparency about matters that don't involve us (unless, of course, you're reporting yourself for your own misconduct)?

Wilf said :
if jagex asked it of the mod team I imagine you'd all just do it without complaint. Am I right? One would assume that if a volunteer moderator blatantly ignored guidelines, policies, and procedures set forth for them by Jagex that it would not end particularly well for the volunteer in question.

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Spearmint30

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Food scientists have finally managed to remove the mint flavor from gum! The ex-spearmint was a success!

¤

13-Feb-2022 00:41:26

Jul

2019

Wilf

Posts: 17,032 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

1 If the number of reports were similar then I'd see no reason why not, but I think the amount of in-game reports will make this impractical. also we shouldn't forget that the support team will also be dealing with other things outside of in game reports such as bot detection bans/ account support/ tech support.

2 As has been mentioned we can already ask for an explanation, which indicates that isn't an issue. It's just it has to be requested rather than given automatically.

I was reminded somewhat of the hysteria displayed by a number of users both moderators and non moderators whenever links on the forums were discussed here. Omg the trolls and guaranteed abuse will turn the forums into a hell hole etc etc... Jagex allow links same users then come posting on the sticky about how great the update is etc etc. As we can see the forums didn't descend into chaos.

3 as volunteers if they didn't want to they can just not volunteer at all, and go back to a non moderator account if they wish. No problems isn't going to cause them any inconvenience. We've also been told numerous times by a former mod that they don't have to do forum help and as such never did, while it's possible jagex's critera has changed I find it very unlikely.

13-Feb-2022 16:43:13 - Last edited on 13-Feb-2022 17:28:58 by Wilf

Jan

2011

Roddy Piper

Posts: 13,751 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I guess your POV depends on what you feel is worthy of reporting. If I report something I certainly am expecting the action to be taken.

If there is no action then I was either mistaken or ignored. I don't think there is another option?

If I'm wrong then it's probably a good idea to tell me that, because next up I am gathering witnesses in-game to go check out the offending post.

13-Feb-2022 17:45:09

Apr

2012

Spearmint30

Posts: 23,350 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Wilf said :
2 As has been mentioned we can already ask for an explanation, which indicates that isn't an issue. It's just it has to be requested rather than given automatically. This thread doesn't explain why this isn't adequate, though? Surely, if you really need more information about your report and you can already just ask for it, making it automatically mandatory isn't going to matter because only those who would've asked for clarification in the first place are going to bother going back to check.

And since you're going back to check for feedback anyhow, that means you're already there so a quick message asking for a clarification shouldn't be too big of a problem. It's not like it's making you go out of your way, though one could argue that you now have to return to the thread a third time and you wouldn't if it was automatic.

Also, I wouldn't consider my opinion of this suggestion being unnecessary as being due to concerns of hysteria and chaos - I just don't think feedback is needed for every little thing. Feedback is already given by the FMods where and when warranted and on request. So whether or not they can resign if they don't like it being mandatory isn't much of a concern, IMO, given that this isn't how things work and I also don't see a huge benefit to changing the system to make this be how things work.

If Jagex Community Management decide that's what they want the FMods to do, then that is certainly what the FMods will do and this suggestion would be put in place. Until then, why not let the volunteer mods who do choose to work the Forum Help thread do what they do and enjoy the forums without having to craft a reply for every single report in the thread unless asked for one.

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Spearmint30

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Food scientists have finally managed to remove the mint flavor from gum! The ex-spearmint was a success!

¤

13-Feb-2022 18:07:04

Jul

2019

Wilf

Posts: 17,032 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I'm going to assume they went to the thread where they'd reported something, and on seeing nothing changed went back to forum help. Then back to where they posted and saw no response to them yet the post was hidden.

I'd say a lot of users probably don't know you can request clarification due to not bothering to read the thread fully before posting.

I know OP has been foruming for a long time and sometimes makes somewhat trollish threads (in my opinion) so I'm just going along with it regardless of intent as it's something that's so insignificant I can't see any reason to be against it

So conversely if a response can be give on request why not give it after deciding no action to be taken? A line or two briefly explaining shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes if that.

for instance if somebody reports somebody because they called them stupid, the mod could say: while it's not the most mature of responses being called stupid isn't serious enough for us to intervene I have however left a post asking the user to try be more civil going forward. If the nature of insults increases please post again and we'll have another look.

Please don't tell me that would lead to people calling everyone stupid because mods don't take any action... Actually I'm not even sure if that would be left unaction or not.

It all goes towards improving the user experience, the person making the report hopefully learns something and doesn't feel ignored.

It's the same thing with the FMR they don't have to give a response but they do, and it isn't an indepth response yet when we get it we're pleased enough.

In regards to the hysteria I was referring to the nonsense about trolls trying to find out about the guidelines/ procedures. Do you think they'd learn some secret knowledge allowing them to troll freely while the mods watch on going oh no we can't do anything the guidelines don't cover this what can we do...

13-Feb-2022 18:46:56