RuneScape Forum Archive | Forum Help Accountability

Mar

2006

Immortalized

Posts: 34,061 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

To clarify, this thread is a response to numerous incidents observed over years, not one.

While I appreciate Tuffty's honesty, I have concerns:

1) If reports are private as Rooh suggested, why do I lose my right to privacy by bringing this issue to light? Sharing the fact I submitted a report and its contents was unnecessary. I am not asking to change the post to hide it, the damage is done already, and I now willfully forfeit my rights to privacy to encourage an open discussion about this issue (not the report in question), but I hope in the future the privacy all forumers are entitled to is respected better.

2) It is deeply concerning to me that a FMod can make an assumption regarding the nature of a report without even explaining why, then choose not to act because of it. This reaffirms my idea that multiple FMods should review reports. The assumption being presented here is simply not true and arguably even assassinating my character and depicting me in an entirely different light; I have never knowingly interacted with the person I reported before. This is why privacy is important here, the assumption provided is quite frankly false and unfairly attacks the legitimacy of the issue I am discussing in this thread.

3) Does having a "history" absolve duty to enforce the rules? Perhaps I am misinterpreting this, but I would argue anyone with a "history" is more likely to find themselves in a flaming situation. That oddly sounds like the advice is if someone harasses you repeatedly, do not report, because FMods know they do this often! I firmly believe reports should always be treated equally regardless of history. I publicly admit that I reported someone who I have never spoken to before in my entire life for questioning my mental capabilities. I personally found it very offensive and designed to be inflammatory. It is disappointing to me that an FMod can just make such assumptions and detract from the legitimacies of reports.

I think this reaffirms everything. Buy Zemomarks / Chromatic Partyhats safely here

10-Feb-2022 18:09:17

Mar

2006

Immortalized

Posts: 34,061 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Archaeox said :
Tuffty said :
Now this next bit you won't like but it is our Procedure. Still active to this day. If you feel an injustice was done then you can use the Review thread.
LOL!
Sorry Tuffty, but you need to keep up with this thread

Right now FMR is running over
THREE MONTHS
without a response. That's e even worse than the issue this thread is complaining about. Don't be disingenuous by suggesting anyone use it. I am sure Tuffty knows fully well this Archaeox. That is just his guideline to share. But I hope this provides greater clarity to my opinion that such comments can be presented in a way that feels a lot like flame-bating, even if unintended.

For example, the following:
Tuffty said :
I/We can't just remove posts because you have a bad history with someone and don't want to see their replies. Well above our pay grade. Won't ever be done. It seems you have a history with said person and at times want his/her comments stifled.
Is pure speculation. It is one thing to make an assumption, but to double down with comments like "Well above our pay grade" and "Won't ever be done" and trivializing my report to something he personally feels is going on is just salt in the wound.

Hopefully it is apparent why I would feel a disclaimer following this to review on FMR (which we all know is not actively being used) would invoke emotions in a way that feels similar to flame-bating. Perhaps FMods do not get treated this way often because they have green posts, but I have experienced it many times over years and there is a certain way to respectfully engage with individuals on the forums. Small transgressions like this are certainly received in ways that I think are less than what we should all be striving to exemplify when we speak to others, especially in positions of power where our word is law. Buy Zemomarks / Chromatic Partyhats safely here

10-Feb-2022 18:21:14

Mar

2006

Immortalized

Posts: 34,061 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Mrs Ana said :
Thank you for the excellent comments and discussion Mrs Ana, I completely agree. I think providing a response is just a matter of respect, not really intended to make FMod jobs harder. If I took the time to submit a report, it's not very nice to just hide it and do nothing and leave me in the dark.

For the record, this thread is years in the making, and not tied to a specific recent incident. I want to clear this thread from any perceived illegitimacy by associating it with that report, and truthfully I do not think this is really a public space for me to challenge the action in a fair manner anyway. I don't want my thread to get locked - hope that regardless of that being brought to light we can remain focused on the underlying issue which is being left in the dark. Buy Zemomarks / Chromatic Partyhats safely here

10-Feb-2022 18:34:00

Sep

2011

Loki

Posts: 65,226 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Immortalized said :
2) It is deeply concerning to me that a FMod can make an assumption regarding the nature of a report without even explaining why, then choose not to act because of it.

This reaffirms my idea that multiple FMods should review reports.

The assumption being presented here is simply not true and arguably even assassinating my character and depicting me in an entirely different light; I have never knowingly interacted with the person I reported before. This is why privacy is important here, the assumption provided is quite frankly false and unfairly attacks the legitimacy of the issue I am discussing in this thread. I've highlighted what this post is mostly referring to, but what makes you think that the FMods aren't discussing things in their private forums/private discord server? Just because we can't see it on the forums, doesn't mean it's not happening.

I can't comment for the FMod team, but speaking from the DMod team (can thank Mod Kari for that name), we take on reports, and action if necessary. We will provide a response if we feel the need that one is required. We will sometimes close a report without a response or any action, however there have been times where we've been unsure of something, and we'll request the opinion of another team member, or multiple team members. We then discuss this in private to see whether any action is required, or not, and if something wasn't done correctly, or necessarily the right action taken, then we'll get the perspective of others and we'll know what to do for any future reports which may be similar.

• »‡« •
Adam
• »‡« •

Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts.

10-Feb-2022 20:01:53

Sep

2011

Loki

Posts: 65,226 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I really am failing to understand why getting a response is such a big deal, to the point a thread had to be made? I understand it can be seen as respectful to get one to see your report has been actioned, but if your FH post is hidden, wouldn't you go to what you reported to see if it was actioned or not? If not, and you really feel the need for an explanation, then it's as simple as asking for one on FH, is it not?

Also, there have been a number of times in the past where I've reported something, it's been made hidden, and no action was taken, and I'd be like "???????????????", but no where near to the point I'd ask for an explanation as to why. There'd be a reason why no action was taken, and it most likely is the result of me not knowing the full FSR, or FMod guidelines that need to be followed - and that's simply enough for me to just move on.

• »‡« •
Adam
• »‡« •

Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts.

10-Feb-2022 20:03:48

Sep

2011

Loki

Posts: 65,226 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Mrs Ana said :
Edited. Also, I saw this post and wrote out a response to it, but upon pressing post, I got slapped in the face with the log in screen, and then 2x reCaptcha and I got made and just closed the forums lol... and now I don't remember what you said ;-;

• »‡« •
Adam
• »‡« •

Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts.

10-Feb-2022 20:04:48

Sep

2011

Loki

Posts: 65,226 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Archaeox said :
Tuffty said :
Now this next bit you won't like but it is our Procedure. Still active to this day. If you feel an injustice was done then you can use the Review thread.
LOL!
Sorry Tuffty, but you need to keep up with this thread

Right now FMR is running over
THREE MONTHS
without a response. That's e even worse than the issue this thread is complaining about. Don't be disingenuous by suggesting anyone use it. I'm sure the FMod team knows this is the case, and I'm fairly sure they've been hounding CM to look through the thread within their private forums. It's no secret that it's clearly evident that Jagex doesn't give a single crap about the forums anymore, but you can't fault the greenies for following guidance given to them, which most likely hasn't been updated in at least half a decade...

• »‡« •
Adam
• »‡« •

Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts.

10-Feb-2022 20:08:45

Mar

2006

Immortalized

Posts: 34,061 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Loki said :
Hi Loki, I am actually not familiar with what DMods are, but truthfully I have no idea of the review process because I am not a FMod myself. My suggestion is that it should be something required to do, as opposed to just something as a good practice. I am unable to comment on that, but nothing I have seen has indicated to me that such behavior occurs, so it is impossible for me to really answer this question. I have however seen other FMods start posting on the thread specifically referenced earlier, which suggests that regardless the fact no action was performed that they felt the need to intervene and remind posters of the rules. Again, I have no way to know how the internal review process works, but this suggests that just because one FMod chooses not to act that it does not necessarily mean that other FMods agree that moderator attention is not warranted there. I would think then it is valuable for multiple FMods to weigh in on a report, not just dismiss it because someone has 'checked' it off by marking it hidden, if that makes sense.

I would also be potentially concerned if the review process is something that is not independent to the moderator and occurs on another platform. I suspect that can lead to a "bandwagon effect" where you just go along with the opinion to minimize the work. For example, if I was hypothetically a FMod, and saw 3 of them say in a separate venue, such as Discord, that they thought X was the right way to handle Y, I am probably not going to review that issue myself. Or, if I disagreed, now I am challenging all 3 of their opinions and asserting my own is true. For example, maybe I am more inclined to go with what a more senior member of the team thinks, even if I disagree. My opinion is that this should be an independent thing done without really discussing with others, and I would be concerned if this is how reports are handled now for the potential of bias such as this. Buy Zemomarks / Chromatic Partyhats safely here

10-Feb-2022 20:16:25 - Last edited on 10-Feb-2022 20:28:45 by Immortalized

Mar

2006

Immortalized

Posts: 34,061 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Loki said :
I really am failing to understand why getting a response is such a big deal, to the point a thread had to be made? I had not seen Mrs Ana's thread prior to this, so I think the fact that we both independently thought this was something worthy of discussion to make a thread justifies the thread existing. It's not just me who feels this way, some others do, and maybe they are a minority to you and their reasons unimportant, but clearly we do not feel that way. Buy Zemomarks / Chromatic Partyhats safely here

10-Feb-2022 20:30:26

Mrs Ana

Posts: 8,998 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Loki said :
I really am failing to understand why getting a response is such a big deal, to the point a thread had to be made? I understand it can be seen as respectful to get one to see your report has been actioned, but if your FH post is hidden, wouldn't you go to what you reported to see if it was actioned or not? If not, and you really feel the need for an explanation, then it's as simple as asking for one on FH, is it not? All of what you are describing CAN and SHOULD be avoided by a simple response from the Forum Moderator that hid the post without taking an action. Yes, any player has the ability to carry out what you have mentioned, but should we really get to that point? I do not think so. It's completely unnecessary to get there, Loki. I shouldn't have to go back to the thread I reported (which, sometimes, a normal player may forget lol) to see if it was actioned or not and I shouldn't definitely have to go back to Forum Help to inquire about a previous report.

I create a report to Forum Help. The post gets hidden without an action. The F-Mod responds, "Hey, the F-Mod team didn't find any rule-breaking in your report. If you disagree, use FMR." That's it. Is it that hard? No, it isn't and it shouldn't be. Now, if I don't get a response, then I am left to wonder, "Why?" Furthermore, that presents the possibility of creating a needless thread to find more details (which, undoubtedly, will get locked for publicly discussing an F-Mod's action or lack thereof) or simply more posts in Forum Help.

All of that CAN and SHOULD be avoid by saying, "Hey, your report wasn't actioned for x/y reason(s). If applicable, use FMR."

10-Feb-2022 21:31:24

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