RuneScape Forum Archive | A thought: Abolishing POKs

Nov

2018

Lord Pyro I

Posts: 4,255 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Last Deterro said :

The split canon situation is ludicrous at the moment, it needs to be solved. There are a variety of issues here, deep and shallow. But finger-pointing at a thread as to the reason why new roleplayers are being turned away is just silly.

As silly as finger-pointing at poks as the root of all evil on W42. As to solving the issue with split canons, frankly I have to say that splitting the canon was the solution. We just didn't expect so many to flood to the defense of the worst of our community or it would have been far more effective at removing them. And yes I'm afraid that there are some people on W42 who are so far gone that their removal is quite frankly the only option. If you really want to resolve this issue then bring as many people as you can into W42's main canon and leave the likes of the vekons, buppy and their puppets behind.

@Croco where do I even start?

Oh I know!

NO WE ARE NOT A PRIVATE RP GROUP.

We are quite simply the public continuation of all the poks that you used to acknowledge until you decided that you didn't like who ended up in charge so an entire new canon was built just because of your personal dislike. If we acted the way you did there would have been a split canon many, many, many years ago. I felt about Gale ruling Kandarin much the same as you seem to feel about Rid ruling Asgarnia but I never felt the need to construct a whole new parallel reality in order to deal with that.

As for not forcefully overwriting us? Your only other option is "basically roleplayed their characters as not acknowledging POK leaders" leading to a brand new split canon. Either you force us to join in your crazy scheme or you break away to do it on your own, those really are the only options.

"without people trying to kill the king, or force invasions"

In others words the people in charge now remain so forever. As ever it always comes back to maintaining IC power. "The greatest endeavors are achieved because of their selfless intent"

#WarIsComing

04-Aug-2019 10:40:27

Kex

Posts: 5,871 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@Spartae

You know, if I recall, we never got on particularly well when we were on Runescape. Granted, no one on Runescape got along particularly well, but I put a lot of that up to the fact that 42 has always been a little hard to manage and we were all a bunch of kids five years ago. Reading over most of what you've said, it echoes my sentiments really well.

I feel that, to some extent, I contributed to the really sorry state of 42. I made my forceful pushes to change 42 culture to resemble other MMOs, but unfortunately it seemed like my ideals got applied unequally and it only led to things getting worse.

I preached two major things:
1. POCs (or POKs as y'all call em now) should be abolished.
2. You cannot be forced to roleplay with anyone.

In the old old days, it was frowned upon to ignore ANYONE. I remember it was a huge issue when Gantheon ignored some kid roleplaying his character having a camera, and the forums blew up for days (god, that's an ancient memory). People forcibly murdered one another's characters, and there were even a few cases of sexual assault in RP where people felt like they had to accept what was being done to their characters. Over the years this always got better, but people were still uncomfortable with the idea that you don't HAVE to roleplay with someone you don't want to. That's where #2 came from.

The thing about #2 was that it had to come after #1, because #1 is the inherent barrier that forces a single continuity on 42. People seemed to take #2 to heart, but without POCs disappearing, people began to ignore entire Kingdoms when it suited them. And apparently that's gotten much worse recently, since there seems to be two distinct canons and two separate threads for each kingdom. And that started around the time I left - I feel the need to apologize for it, because I feel like it was partially my uneven application of ideology that led to the situation where half the community started feeling okay isolating the other half. I have eaten
the plums
that were in
the icebox

and which
you were probably
saving
for breakfast

Forgive me
they were delicious
so sweet
and so cold

04-Aug-2019 10:49:09

Nov

2013

Last Deterro

Posts: 512 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Lord Pyro I said :
Last Deterro said :

The split canon situation is ludicrous at the moment, it needs to be solved. There are a variety of issues here, deep and shallow. But finger-pointing at a thread as to the reason why new roleplayers are being turned away is just silly.

As silly as finger-pointing at poks as the root of all evil on W42. As to solving the issue with split canons, frankly I have to say that splitting the canon was the solution. We just didn't expect so many to flood to the defense of the worst of our community or it would have been far more effective at removing them. And yes I'm afraid that there are some people on W42 who are so far gone that their removal is quite frankly the only option. If you really want to resolve this issue then bring as many people as you can into W42's main canon and leave the likes of the vekons, buppy and their puppets behind.

Pyro, please just stop. I said at the beginning of this thread that it's for discussion, not just for someone with a loud voice to try and shoot down every single opposition to their view. Additionally, I've said time and again that POKs aren't the root of all evil, they're simply one part of the problem, and that removing them might go towards getting people to get along better.

Your attitude of "remove X people that I don't like and then w42 is great again" is part in parcel of the issue here, the issue that I was hoping would be able to be discussed in a civil manner, the issue of trying to settle grudges for the betterment of the whole server. Please stop.
Thoughtcrime doesn't entail death. Thoughtcrime IS death.

04-Aug-2019 11:20:52

Feb

2019

Runekian

Posts: 132 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

CrocoNuts said :
We now have one public POK scene with what I understand is being said to be Daniel’s Asgarnia, Drakor’s Misthalin and Myles’ Kandarin. We also have a private POK scene, with Void’s Kandarin, Runekian’s Misthalin and Ridaku his Asgarnia that seems to be tied in by proxy for interacting with the first two groups who I have been told have agreed to be private (correct me if I am wrong, I get my info by talking to people but this could be wrong).

Runekian said :
Intro

This is a Public Roleplay group.

RiDaku said :

•¤†¤•¤†¤••¤†¤•¤†¤••¤†¤•¤†¤••¤†¤•¤†¤• Essential Information •¤†¤•¤†¤••¤†¤•¤†¤••¤†¤•¤†¤••¤†¤•¤†¤•

Welcome to the public player-owned Kingdom of Asgarnia.

Void doesn't have that on his thread, but at this point he doesn't need it. You seem to have a very big habit of sweeping aside everything in our posts and presenting your own as fact, and then throwing up some lazy disclaimer to save your ass when anybody that's paid attention notices the inconsistency.

And to add to the discussion here. Frankly I've already implemented a simple policy which allows and tolerates for people to go from whichever story and canon they want at any time. As long as the character isn't one of political office. Regardless, creating a neutral ground is all good and well, but to what end? To open a freelance space? Freelance is dead. Freelance won't come back. And abolishing Player Owned Kingdoms and other such Player Owned Content I.E: The Wizard's Tower. Won't change anything and will only serve to make things worse.
The community is small enough as is. And those who remain regardless of where they fall get to see all of this front and center. And not shoving us aside? Abolish: verb; formally put an end to (a system, practice, or institution) RiDaku™ is an honorable man! Glory to the Kingdom of Misthalin !

The True King Of Misthalin.

04-Aug-2019 13:06:12

Jul

2010

CrocoNuts

Posts: 2,824 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Claim what you want Rune, but I can't help it that when I talk to 'the other side' in the W42 Nursery Discord they say that Void, you and Ridaku have made peace with being a private POK. Thanks for making things clear, seems that either the conversation between both groups was not held properly and things got lost in translation or I was just presented false information to make sure I held my mouth 'because everything has been talked about already'. Hm. Quickly learn how to Roleplay on RuneScape!

I am bad and that's good, I will never be good and that's not bad, there's no one I'd rather be than me.

04-Aug-2019 13:10:04

Feb

2019

Runekian

Posts: 132 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

This thread hints at an entirely different thing. Odd how you, Void and RiDaku were all posting at the same time to get taken down off the thread, but you managed to be convinced that they accepted being falsely branded? That's interesting.

Runekian said :
You seem to have a very big habit of sweeping aside everything in our posts and presenting your own as fact, and then throwing up some lazy disclaimer to save your ass when anybody that's paid attention notices the inconsistency.

Regardless, I've left my thoughts and comments about the Topic on this thread. And I shall be making my formal exit and won't be posting further on this thread.

May fortune favor any who truly wishes to RP regardless of who they RP with. RiDaku™ is an honorable man! Glory to the Kingdom of Misthalin !

The True King Of Misthalin.

04-Aug-2019 13:18:23

Jul

2010

CrocoNuts

Posts: 2,824 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Runekian said :
This thread hints at an entirely different thing. Odd how you, Void and RiDaku were all posting at the same time to get taken down off the thread, but you managed to be convinced that they accepted being falsely branded? That's interesting.

I was literally under the assumption that after that stupid thread people talked things out in a Discord or somewhere else. I actually thought both parties talked things over after all the meaningless stuff like that thread you linked had past and that people went their own ways.

And I was posting on that thread for the reason that I didn't want to be included in a jab like initiative nor being a POK like that list indicated. My name was put on there without consulting me beforehand. Quickly learn how to Roleplay on RuneScape!

I am bad and that's good, I will never be good and that's not bad, there's no one I'd rather be than me.

04-Aug-2019 13:28:15

Spartae

Posts: 5,624 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

We have, alas, reached the point where this thread becomes cyclical as people nitpick language used, philosophical differences, and no longer seem invested in discussing ideas proposed.

As such, I will say this and only this before leaving this thread:

You are currently at the cusp of where every major attempt to do something healthy for W42 gets hampered, trounced on, sodden. As Kex himself has said, he made one such attempt himself only a handful of years ago, and this is typically where it gets shouted down. When those who detract have learned the language of those who propose, and weaponize it as a means to deflect the idea's merit rather than genuinely stepping into the discomfort of acknowledging that you may or may not be a part of a practice that goes hand-in-hand with some of the uglier aspects of W42 RP.

I have personally disagreed with some past attempts and some past solutions, and I acknowledge that. I have used my voice and social platform in the past, as well, to slow down changes I thought were being run by the wrong people, malicious in intent, etc.

People have the right to do so.

However, I implore everyone nay-saying to reconsider what has been discussed. I implore you to speak with those who are pushing for this new direction, and ask them how X, Y, and Z could possibly be affected. I implore you to ask them what evidence they may have for why POKs are historically associated with the good, the bad, and the ugly - maybe they've seen a perspective you have not considered?

But most importantly, I implore you to consider the players traditionally left invisible in these discussions: New players, who do not have any of our shared history; players who have traditionally removed themselves from W42's fights; players who are no longer here because aspects of W42's uglier side pushed them out some time ago.

Consider these.

I know I already have.

Catch me IG if you need me.

04-Aug-2019 13:56:29

Nov

2023

Role-Player

Posts: 9,114 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

To put it briefly, no, you shouldn't. Objectively speaking, a reaction like this is equivalent to banning magic RP because it's not being role-played properly by some parties.

POKs accomodate a very enjoyable and engaging aspect of role-play for a lot of people, alongside a real sense of character development that can't always be satiated by more internalised role-play groups.

Even if 42's population has dwindled from the past years of POK activity, we shouldn't abolish the type of role-play, or indeed privatize it in a separate canon and rob people of the full and fun experience that a POK CAN be.

I'm speaking indifferently to the provocative conflict here, since I'm not too familiar with the details.

„¬°´˜“

And my sax.

“˜`°¬„

04-Aug-2019 18:59:57 - Last edited on 04-Aug-2019 19:03:30 by Role-Player

Sep

2007

Dansplainer

Posts: 3,001 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Last Deterro said :
Dansplainer said :
In effect, you know what's driving new and old people away? It's not PoKs, it's these redundant discussion threads which breed and stir up drama because they are hotbeds for fights and nothing more. All this is doing is what it has ALWAYS done: deepen the divide between one side of the community and the other, and making it even more difficult to rebuild and reunite it than it would be if we would stop resorting to trying to govern a platform which has no capacity to support it.

Basically, "I'm not the issue, you are".

If you will look to the threads on either canon, you may see that the frequency of trolling, flaming or derailing one side or the other's threads, or the creation of these discussion threads, has actually decreased. From what I understand, the RVR (Ridaku-Void-RuneKian) PoK canon has absolutely no interest in roleplaying with those from the DMD (Dan-Myles-Drak) PoK canon and vice versa. In fact I and others from my side have agreed that we never really think about the other canon unless these discussion threads pop up and even then it took until I posted for an active member of the DMD canon to really say anything on this thread. We do not WANT to unite and neither do they. We are perfectly happy leaving it alone and it seems so are they. We don't want to continue fighting about whose is the superior canon or not -- we just want to roleplay. That is what I mean when I say that there is absolutely no issue with the split canons; the only time it ever becomes an issue is when a thread like this pops up, and reignites the debate, which is what has driven so many people away.
-- Hi, I'm Dan.

04-Aug-2019 19:47:56

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A thought: Abolishing POKs