RuneScape Forum Archive | A thought: Abolishing POKs

Sep

2007

Dansplainer

Posts: 3,001 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

-- The problem I am having with this proposal, guys, is that it seems to me you are doing exactly the same thing as he did; you are trying to impede on everyone's right to an independent narrative, which, to me, is the foundation of roleplay. You are dictating your terms as the one, true canon when everybody should have a right to choose how they wish to roleplay, who they wish to roleplay with, and where they wish to roleplay, in the public realm or others, and nobody should have any say in how an individual decides to spend their time on this server.

So, this is my proposal:

Instead of trying to make proposals in which you are certainly only going to worsen the wounds of this community, shouldn't we be defending everyone's individual freedom to roleplay who they want to roleplay with, how they want to roleplay and where, regardless of which canon it takes place in? Hi, I'm Dan.

03-Aug-2019 18:32:00 - Last edited on 03-Aug-2019 18:42:57 by Dansplainer

Oct

2023

Rologarth

Posts: 8,316 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Lord Pyro I said :
@Issac sorry about that pok leader who was clearly a tool but we are just talking about a dreadful person here. I'm guessing he would've been exactly the same without a pok.

You need to learn to accept that poks do not proliferate anything other than rp. Some are lead by good people and some are lead by bad people and removing poks won't change who they are. If it helps I know that myself and others would be happy to talk to this new roleplayer and reinforce that that is not how we do things on W42.

Bruh. I don't need to learn to accept anything. I've already been taught over the years of watching all this stuff fester. It is that tone that makes it hard for people to seriously debate with you instead of just bashing you.

Now, to add to the general conversation and not specifically to Pyro

PoKs themselves are not the core cause. It's a mix between the people and the style that breeds the terrible practices.

Being so vehemently against a decent compromise for the sake of unifying the community that is essentially just replacing a title with something else is selfish and shortsighted.

Removing the practice of PoK and replacing it with noble houses isn't a complete fix. But it's the first step in the right direction, as was stated earlier. Nobody loses anything. People would still have their "positions" and nobody would have to exclude anyone.

Giving it a shot is better than not. Worst case scenario, everyone can just go back to how it was done previously and void whatever. Best case, you can start the healing and unification process.
Can't earn Slayer xp anymore.

03-Aug-2019 18:39:18

Oct

2023

Rologarth

Posts: 8,316 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dansplainer said :
Instead of trying to make proposals in which you are certainly only going to worsen the wounds of this community, shouldn't we be defending everyone's individual freedom to roleplay who they want to roleplay with, how they want to roleplay and where, regardless of which canon it takes place in?

Honestly, this is my stance just mine has the caveat that people need to be less entitled about their shit and that everyone should at least try to get along in some cohesive manner. All of this disagreement crap must require so much effort that could be spent building fun roleplay.
Can't earn Slayer xp anymore.

03-Aug-2019 18:49:21 - Last edited on 03-Aug-2019 18:58:05 by Rologarth

Sep

2007

Dansplainer

Posts: 3,001 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Rologarth said :
Dansplainer said :
Instead of trying to make proposals in which you are certainly only going to worsen the wounds of this community, shouldn't we be defending everyone's individual freedom to roleplay who they want to roleplay with, how they want to roleplay and where, regardless of which canon it takes place in?

Honestly, this is my stance just with the caveat that people need to be less entitled about their shit and that everyone should at least try to get along in some cohesive manner. All of this disagreement crap must require so much effort that could be spent building fun roleplay.

Yeah, that is my point exactly. We are wasting so much time and energy arguing about this, rather than just... Roleplaying. It really does not need to be such a big deal how or why or who we roleplay with. Hi, I'm Dan.

03-Aug-2019 18:58:37

Spartae

Posts: 5,624 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I understand and empathize strongly with that position, but I do feel the need to say that as I understand such a solution's existence, nobody's narratives are being hampered, cut off, told they do not exist. Instead, the solution is so that people aren't having to choose a narrative to be a part of or not with their own character. If the POKs aren't considered part of the overarching "interact with whoever/whatever" 'canon' of W42, your same character can be in both POKs and the overarching 'canon', to use the term lightly.

POKs in my experience have done more to control or short-cut stories than any other RP/group/whatever. I don't think striving for a world where publicly, NPCs are acknowledged as rulers, does this. The POKs can continue their thing, in their own version of events, much as they already have and do. Meanwhile, this is much less frustrating or confusing for new players who have no relationship with the players and events that create these split-canon stories in the first place.

Everyone can do their own thing. Twenty Faladors can exist, five Misthalins. At the end of the day, new players can walk in expecting to still see King Roald in place and to get their feet wet in RP; then they may discover a kingdom variant of Misthalin they like and go RP there while still bringing that same character to other public events.

IMO, stepping away from POKs is about leaning into access, inclusion, and equity for all players. POKs may be sidelined in that the traditional definitions of public RP players tend to abide by may not apply to them, but they are far from hampered from telling their own stories and developing their own vibrant worlds.

Again, this is just me speaking.

04-Aug-2019 03:31:36

ebolahuakbar

Posts: 29 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I like where the conversation is going.

I'll add some thoughts later, but I'll also look into the concept of POKs, and if redefining POKs may also provide some relief. I support abortions starting at the 4th trimester and beyond.

04-Aug-2019 04:17:17

Sep

2007

Dansplainer

Posts: 3,001 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

See, the thing is about World 42 and roleplay in general is that everyone is trying to govern it, when its ungovernable and everybody is trying to argue for or against, when there is nothing to argue about. Roleplay does not have a platform to support this sort of community regulation because the entire point of it is to interpret the canon as one might see it.

In any case, I have to say that suggesting an overarching NON-PoK scene canon is just the same as dictating an overarching PoK canon. There is NO overarching canon, because there shouldn't be, because that's not what roleplaying is. It's the same thing except you're replacing the pok scene clique with the non pok scene clique.

The REAL issue lies in the manner with which we treat each other, and it has been utterly abhorrent. That's what we should be focusing on, not something that will do absolutely nothing but exacerbate the ongoing "drama" and "controversy."

In effect, you know what's driving new and old people away? It's not PoKs, it's these redundant discussion threads which breed and stir up drama because they are hotbeds for fights and nothing more. All this is doing is what it has ALWAYS done: deepen the divide between one side of the community and the other, and making it even more difficult to rebuild and reunite it than it would be if we would stop resorting to trying to govern a platform which has no capacity to support it. Hi, I'm Dan.

04-Aug-2019 04:53:33 - Last edited on 04-Aug-2019 04:59:11 by Dansplainer

Nov

2013

Last Deterro

Posts: 512 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Dansplainer said :
In effect, you know what's driving new and old people away? It's not PoKs, it's these redundant discussion threads which breed and stir up drama because they are hotbeds for fights and nothing more. All this is doing is what it has ALWAYS done: deepen the divide between one side of the community and the other, and making it even more difficult to rebuild and reunite it than it would be if we would stop resorting to trying to govern a platform which has no capacity to support it.

Basically, "I'm not the issue, you are". Other than the fact that I think the last thing that would stop a new roleplayer is a single discussion thread, I think you (and a lot of other people) are missing the point. Removing POKs doesn't mean removing POK-style roleplay, it doesn't mean null and void'ing all of your stories. It just means that groups would be able to co-exist. Even if those groups don't always get along well, it's about getting all of the current POK leaders to set aside their differences and stop trying to proclaim themselves the one true canon.

The split canon situation is ludicrous at the moment, it needs to be solved. There are a variety of issues here, deep and shallow. But finger-pointing at a thread as to the reason why new roleplayers are being turned away is just silly.

The core issue, at the end of the day, is the people can't cooperate - or at least, are unwilling to currently. This thread was intended for me to figure out how the community at large feel about the issue - and that's clear now. I might have this thread locked and spark up another thread aimed solely at those who are currently in charge of POKs as to a solution that isn't going to force people apart.

But, for now, I'll leave it open and see if any more discussion crops up, good or bad.
Thoughtcrime doesn't entail death. Thoughtcrime IS death.

04-Aug-2019 09:33:58

Jul

2010

CrocoNuts

Posts: 2,824 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Spart and Echo are completely right. The POK scene is not being cast aside as some second class RP form, and people are not scared away due to a threads talking about the community. That’s just some of the doomsayery stuff I talked about earlier, because nothing is being thrown in the trash and nothing is being forcefuly overwritten. The plate may be full but some people would still like to have something on the side. Doesn’t mean I dump the rest of my food in the trash but it could mean that if I like what’s on the side more, I’ll eventually make that my main course.

We now have one public POK scene with what I understand is being said to be Daniel’s Asgarnia, Drakor’s Misthalin and Myles’ Kandarin. We also have a private POK scene, with Void’s Kandarin, Runekian’s Misthalin and Ridaku his Asgarnia that seems to be tied in by proxy for interacting with the first two groups who I have been told have agreed to be private (correct me if I am wrong, I get my info by talking to people but this could be wrong).

I think that the things of appeal like ‘it allows us to progress the story on a global scale better and more because the Jagex storyline is so slow’ is quite valid. Three years ago maybe. Now I think that with RP having slowed down so much as the story of RS3 did, I think there’s no harm in looking at another option.

People through the years have basically roleplayed their characters as not acknowledging POK leaders by not bringing it up IC or simply never roleplaying with these people. Most of them simply stuck to what rulers Jagex tossed at them, like with Morytania (Drakan was the boss so no trying to be Drakan). It could very offer a solution to look at how that community worked and see if there is a demand for a public Jagex canon. Slow moving in the story but without split canon stuff, people trying to kill the king, or force invasions upon other kingdoms. Quickly learn how to Roleplay on RuneScape!

I am bad and that's good, I will never be good and that's not bad, there's no one I'd rather be than me.

04-Aug-2019 10:00:44 - Last edited on 04-Aug-2019 10:06:15 by CrocoNuts

Nov

2018

Lord Pyro I

Posts: 4,255 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Spartae said :
I understand and empathize strongly with that position, but I do feel the need to say that as I understand such a solution's existence, nobody's narratives are being hampered, cut off, told they do not exist. Instead, the solution is so that people aren't having to choose a narrative to be a part of or not with their own character. If the POKs aren't considered part of the overarching "interact with whoever/whatever" 'canon' of W42, your same character can be in both POKs and the overarching 'canon', to use the term lightly.

This is because this whole plan is based on that rarest of elements known as handwavium. That is to say it all sounds great when you say it quickly but it is very lacking in details such as how it actually solves any of the issues you highlight here.

First and foremost people's narratives will still face being hampered, cut off and being told that they do not exist. Getting rid of poks will not change the fact that other people will disapprove of your characters and hold the numbers necessary to do something about it.

To provide an example: My narrative of the character Lord Pyro is that he he one of W42's oldest villians/anti-heroes, that he has clashed with all the old greats (the worshipers less so but we had some interactions) and that he has earned a certain amount of respect and fear. Not because I want to throw my weight around W42 but because I fundamentally believe it fits the character better and creates better stories.

Is my narrative going to be respected just because we remove POKs? Somehow I think not.

Work out quite how this plan is going to accomplish anything you claim it will and then I might take some interest. Though personally I suspect what you're promising will require a lot more work than you are prepared to put in. "The greatest endeavors are achieved because of their selfless intent"

#WarIsComing

04-Aug-2019 10:08:36

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A thought: Abolishing POKs