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RiDaku
Oct Member 2012

RiDaku

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It's pretty hard to read your question as anything other than what I read it as, seeing how I'd already answered what you're saying you were asking in the paragraph that came before your quote.

"I don't have any problem doing it." Saying that I already do it where applicable, without sabotaging or damaging my POK roleplays. Which renders asking me if I'd do it a moot point. "I'm going to eat my dinner." "Okay, are you going to eat that?" I just answered you, which leaves it looking less like an innocent inquiry and more like a request to have my dinner.

I'm leading my group's RP the way we enjoy it, with a story that we like. When I RP with people who don't subscribe to the same lore ideas, I push it to the background because it's not a key part of his character. This was with the context of Isaac commenting on how someone else was not able to do that (that context is important.) It's not me patting myself on the back - it's me pushing my argument that the POK medium isn't the problem, it's the people within it, and that the next big medium that might be suggested would just become another problem.

I should note that I'm not "heavily in favor" with the POK system "we" have now. It's part of the reason we decided to make our own version of it, separate from the ones of old. The Sicarius |
They think they are "the many", and I "the few". They think this gives them the right to walk over me.

Want to Role-Play? Click Here!

03-Aug-2019 11:22:10

CrocoNuts
Jul Member 2010

CrocoNuts

Posts: 2,824 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I know you and five others have moved away due to ‘the people’ but the changes me and Spart talked about are not meant to change the people, simply because we believe that through for example scaling things down and forbidding roleplayers to asign their characters a king/queen like role could be a small start to get players on a more even playing field.

Take for example Asgarnia hosted by Daniel and the Asgarnia hosted by Ridaku. It would become House Sterlant of Asgarnia and House Halverson of Asgarnia instead. There’s unity in the canon but there’s nobody forcing anyone roleplaying their narrative in the same city to interact as if they are part of the same roleplay group. The people remain untouched but the POK scene will no longer contain ‘big’ rulers like the Empress of Kandarin or the King of Misthalin. No more will you have people advertising their group as ‘the real one’ or have (new) people confused as to who is in charge.

Player rulers are unique to RSRP but seeing as the roles of the NPC leaders have become more significant during the Seren council and with how the population of RuneScape has dropped I think of that as a good opening to scale down our public RP scene (the scene where most newbies end up in) and reinvent the wheel by talking about how we wosh to shape up public and/or POK roleplay. That does include a new way of using the words ‘public roleplay’ and ‘private roleplay’. Perhaps what Spart says is a healthy solition and we should move POK roleplay to the private scene and create a new and more appealing (3rd?) system/canon to set things straight for the coming years. I realy suggest you talk to the good man, I know you two were buddies at some point so perhaps you’ll be less sceptical and reachty when he presents his thoughts to you instead of me doing it. Quickly learn how to Roleplay on RuneScape!

I am bad and that's good, I will never be good and that's not bad, there's no one I'd rather be than me.

03-Aug-2019 13:14:27

RiDaku
Oct Member 2012

RiDaku

Posts: 6,003 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
CrocoNuts said :
I know you and five others

low quality bait and continuing to ignore that we're a separate thing and thus have no impact on what you want to do, moving on The Sicarius |
They think they are "the many", and I "the few". They think this gives them the right to walk over me.

Want to Role-Play? Click Here!

03-Aug-2019 13:16:47 - Last edited on 03-Aug-2019 13:18:44 by RiDaku

RiDaku
Oct Member 2012

RiDaku

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you've managed to get two names wrong, with one being Pyro who's still being counted even though earlier in this thread he outright stated he doesn't RP anymore, and you also worded it as just me and five others which entirely dismisses the people that write with us and operate under our umbrella which is a tactic used to make us seem insignificant and unimportant, which lets you continue to brush aside the "we're separate and have absolutely no impact on what you do" comment in order to suggest things like us re-integrating under a proposed POK abolishment, which is already something i've said no to because being a POK has not been a problem for us.

yes, that's bait, and low quality. i'm out of the thread The Sicarius |
They think they are "the many", and I "the few". They think this gives them the right to walk over me.

Want to Role-Play? Click Here!

03-Aug-2019 13:31:12 - Last edited on 03-Aug-2019 14:10:21 by RiDaku

CrocoNuts
Jul Member 2010

CrocoNuts

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Honestly glad to hear you’re officially out then. Happy roleplaying with your group, others will do the same and I hope in a different way in the future.


To the people who are interested in the ideas I’m rambling about in this back and forth with Ridaku, please do tell me your own solutions were people that are wanting to abolish POK roleplay in its current form. What would you suggest? Is simply ignoring the scene as one front together enough? Do we need to come up with an alternative to what POK roleplay is designed to offer? Is the term ‘public roleplay’ healthy and relevant to keep in use for W42 as it is today?


If you share the sentiment of me, or Spart, or Isaac, tell and post them here. The door has been opened for change and though I am dead afraid of this being ‘another hub like idea’, in that this would split our small community even more with what change this might bring or tries to offer, I still feel like now is a really good time to at least talk about it and voice our concerns. I know there’s more people that share the sentiment. I know about the fatigue that comes with endlessly hearing the same arguments, doomsayer like cries and hollow solutions. But please, if you’re a lurking veteran, total newbie to W42 or an outsider with an understanding about Roleplay servers/communities, please take the effort to post and don’t let this possible opportunity go to waste before it even got the chance to be tried. Help your like-minded ones refine their oppinions, polish their solutions and help brainstorm with their plans, it doesn’t matter what your relation to W42 is at that point. New. Old. Outcast. Private roleplayer. Freelancer. Retired veteran.
We can all try to put an end to split canon travesties, argumentive invasions and unwanted layers of power in the public sphere. But please post like Isaac or Spart or me! Even like at the start of the thread simply posting your support/shared sentiment is already enough. Quickly learn how to Roleplay on RuneScape!

I am bad and that's good, I will never be good and that's not bad, there's no one I'd rather be than me.

03-Aug-2019 13:59:06 - Last edited on 03-Aug-2019 15:01:31 by CrocoNuts

ebolahuakbar

ebolahuakbar

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I will read over the most recent comments and pose some questions and thoughts later. (Genuine ones, not just the "People trying to abolish POKs? Lol" that I did earlier.) I support abortions starting at the 4th trimester and beyond.

03-Aug-2019 15:35:43

Spartae

Spartae

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Lots of posts since I posted - surprised how much this thread seems to have revived. I'll just do some broad responses to what I've seen, then:

To Khaji : I agree with much of your sentiment, albeit I do not believe the POK-structure best caters to the interests of multiple small groups operating with a kingdom. Even in POK heydays, many of the smaller groups were consumed by the POK structure: They either competed with business offerings of regular citizens of that POK (who the POK members would favor to keep their clan active), or they had to operate within some restrictions of their chosen POK. Frankly, I think moving away from POKs altogether and toward things such as Falador: Smith's Guild, Falador: The Adams Family, etc. could be better at realizing this dream of small groups in larger settings.

To Pyro: At the end of the day, whether we agree on it or not, we are saying the same thing: POKs have historically been a nexus for hate, roleplay abuse/malpractice, and other unsavory behaviors. Are they, on their own, entirely to blame? Possibly, possibly not. But their association with most of the toxic things occurring throughout W42 is not something we can feasibly deny. As I have said before, and as I will say again: I am not especially interested in compromising with pro-POK people for a solution that maintains POKs, if it were up to me as an individual.

To ResonantEcho: You seem to have a very similar line of thought as some things Lozz and I have been talking about. I would love to talk to you more to hear your perspective and thoughts. I also agree that evidence is ample that people are as fed up if not more fed up with POKs than they are in support of them. I also believe we have found a way to incorporate this to fix the "split canon" debacle of W42.

To Isaac Stark: I agree with your sentiments, and I know the experiences you've had - I've seen similar happen so many times over. It's time to move on.

03-Aug-2019 17:04:40

Spartae

Spartae

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To RiDaku: I genuinely do not believe Lozz is trying to target or bait you in this instance, having discussed this idea at some length with him. Your roleplay would not be "destroyed" or "voided out of all existence", to paraphrase; in such a movement, your roleplay would simply be relegated to the private sector. Which, I must confess to both POK canons: You both already strike me as private or semi-private roleplays. You both compete for the idea of being a public roleplay sphere, but the attitudes, actions, and decorum both groups have presented time and again when bickering on threads, when saying you have walked away from each other but have not entirely, tells me that neither "canon" is a great fit for what Public RP was meant to embody.

This is not to say that everybody must acknowledge everybody in public roleplay. But the issue with POKs is that when people do not acknowledge one another, other players who have nothing to do with the conflict must choose, and it is especially confusing to new players or those outside of those social spheres. I acknowledge that terrible bullying and targeting has been a partial influence to the split, but a public RP without POKs is perhaps more effective and beneficial to all involved parties in terms of allowing you some selection on who you interact with without straining other players' and groups' abilities to do so.


To Kex: I believe I've been thinking about that a lot. That was within the timeframe shortly before I left W42 and Runescape, and I remember it getting so darn close to succeeding. I agree with everything you've stated. I think the big deviation between your work then and my thoughts right now is that compromise and achieving the support of POK owners is no longer a concern. Too much has been hindered in the past from trying to tread eggshells with POK owners and affiliates.

03-Aug-2019 17:15:42

Dansplainer
Sep Member 2007

Dansplainer

Posts: 3,001 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
So, for awhile now I have been avoiding hot-button discussion threads such as these, because I personally feel like this is the wrong medium with which to address the community's issues. As pointed out on some of the earlier pages, as most or all of you should know, we have been having this sort of discussion on the forums for years now, over and over; to me, that has provided enough evidence that trying to use this platform to argue your opinions, whether you agree or disagree with the topic at hand, is absolutely and utterly pointless.

So I am going to make a counter-proposal to one made by the OP of this thread, but first I want to offer my reasons behind it.

Now, I have to say that I agree with some of what Pyro is saying. If you inspire a movement in which you impose a canon excluding the PoK scene in the general public community, then you will 100%, without a doubt, cause further divide, because the fact of the matter is that the PoK scene will continue regardless of the success of the proposed scenario. That is not pessimistic conjecture, that is fact. We will still be producing five discussion threads about this topic a month and there will still be members of one or the other side of the community asserting that their narrative is the one, true canon.

And to bring up a point brought in by Isaac two pages ago, there is a member of the PoK scene community who behaved with incredible selfishness, ignorance and outright entitlement, who tried to impose the PoK scene on someone who had no interest in it because he felt that his narrative was owed universal acknowledgement. As a PoK scene leader, I scolded him over the issue and I would do it again for anyone else. Nobody has the right to impede on our individual right to an independent roleplaying narrative and everybody should know that I will fiercely defend everyone's rights to it. -- Hi, I'm Dan.

03-Aug-2019 18:31:47 - Last edited on 03-Aug-2019 18:32:54 by Dansplainer

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