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Har Sicarius

Har Sicarius

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Lord Pyro I said :
As to our "rule breaking", claiming over an inactive pok is not rule breaking, refusing to acknowledge rule breakers is not rule breaking..

Yes, yes it is.

It's not like Kandarin was a clan with 1 person, not doing anything but claiming that had infinite amounts of power - I.E the wilderness and you're entire RP career. Kandarin may not have been as busy as it used to be, but thats a server wide issue due to a lack of people on all fronts. Most importantly:

Twillow said :
Also, 'active' and 'inactive' those are tricky, too. What one person thinks is inactive, another person might not think so.

Activity levels are not rule breaking. Sure, if there's a rp where people dont even play, not a single members logged in for months, and nobody is doing anything with the land, I'm sure nobody will have any complaint with you making a new clan. However, Kandarin has been doing stuff. Ian's been trying in Camelot for the clan for months, Storm has tried to make multiple tournaments, and while as you pointed out some of these werent successful - they were open to the whole server and nobody came, not just Kandarin.

The issue is, Kandarin while quieter than the old days - as the whole server is - was actively partaking in the community. It fought an invasion from Salt Aren amidst the prime 'inactivity' period you lot are talking about. They were fufilling their role in the public sphere, abiding by all classical POK rules, even if numbers and internal plots were at a lower level than before.

Surely if they were as weak and unattended as you claimed, you could have committed a lasting invasion which by classical POK rules Kandarin would have no grounds to ignore. Instead you broke a rule and powerplayed it pretty much for no good reason. My personal opinion is that you were afraid you'd lose without breaking multiple rules, so you just broke one big one instead. We come here with no peaceful intent, but ready for battle, determined to avenge our wrongs and set our country free.

17-Jun-2019 20:07:46

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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Har Sicarius said :
Storm has tried to make multiple tournaments, and while as you pointed out some of these werent successful - they were open to the whole server and nobody came, not just Kandarin.

That's a good point you mention. Nobody came, including Pyro who I directly invited on his own Misthalin thread.

It's simply an issue that either nobody liked the idea of a joust, or nobody wanted to come because everyone was inactive or busy.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

17-Jun-2019 20:14:17

Siberys

Siberys

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HC Tervuren said :

For this reason: please avoid personally targeting individuals and please remain civil.

Well, that went down the drain rather quickly - from both sides, I might add.

HC Tervuren said :
Should there be new community leaders? New guidelines? Should split canons be banned (yes)? At this rate I have no idea. Typically, these threads never work and are flamed into oblivion.

To simplify my thoughts on the matter, I agree wholeheartedly with Harry on page 2. The community is far, far too fractured for there to be any semblance of "community leaders." Maybe a couple years ago back when we had representatives chosen for Jagex's user news initiative (I believe we elected Conor and Spartae for that), but that project quickly died, so it became moot.

SpeedoJor said :
but the forum mods do sleep around with certain cretins and people who have a special place in hell.

This is uncalled for and frankly repulsive. Most of your posts on this thread seem to be of a similar nature. I'm aware of the community's general, negative view of forum mods (both Twillow and Tuffty have come under fire in the past and there was also the extreme vitriol directed against Estar), but that certainly doesn't excuse slander of any kind and especially of this nature. The forum mods are just trying to do their damn job and keep us in line with Jagex rules.

I'll respond to Void's lengthy post and the responses to that in the next post(s). Same goes for information pertaining to the RSRP wiki, as I am myself an admin of it as well. "Legacy. What is a legacy? It's planting seeds in a garden you never get to see."

Siberys | W42 RP'er |
Praise Madoka.

17-Jun-2019 20:23:32

Siberys

Siberys

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1.) The alternative canon issue on the History of Ardougne page.

As of this posting, both roleplays have their individual sections on the page in question. A notice of canon split can be posted, but I'd rather wait to see how this situation turns out. Since there is currently a split-canon problem, there are no current plans to remove either section, unless we are given reason to. What does that mean? Don't do a repeat of the History of Asgarnia edit war. That leads me to point two.

2.) The History of Asgarnia debacle.

This was a tricky one. I'm not a fan of erasing history, even if it's contested. We do, however, have a precedent with the TSG article. That page got nuked and bans were issued out due to harassment and other malicious actions conducted by those users. Only those were affected - we left the average TSG user and their individual pages well alone.

The same occurred for this article. Numerous instances of harassment and threats were leveled at certain users, as well as the vandalizing of their wiki pages, and we agreed that the Aren Era getting a wipe was the best solution. Just like last time. IP bans were issued to sockpuppet accounts, and some people were found to either a.) have IP links to the accounts or b.) helped instigate the vandalism and harassment.

For what it's worth, we did provide steps for reinstating the Aren Era section. Those steps were not taken.

Onward to the next post, hoo-ah. "Legacy. What is a legacy? It's planting seeds in a garden you never get to see."

Siberys | W42 RP'er |
Praise Madoka.

17-Jun-2019 21:41:02

Siberys

Siberys

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Void said :
Three years ago you lost Kandarin in a very similar way - You were powerplayed out by someone of your own group who was tired of your inactivity and your skype-chat viscera, handing it off to someone else.

Correction, although some have already pointed it out: If we're talking about the same issue here, Justin transitioning Kandarin to Tom occurred legitimately. There was a RP for it and Justin's character was slain. As well as that, Ardougne was really the only thing in our possession - Yanille canonically still belonged to the Vekons and Camelot was off doing its own thing.

It's the aftermath of that where things become tricky. (Also, was it really three years? I thought it was two at most.)

Vekon said :
But what follows is why these two situations aren’t alike. Axel continued with his plans of taking the throne back for his family, and I made that crystal clear to the new leader and his clan, whilst trying to speak about how to move forward with the war. The narrative I’d been working at for months at this point. And he blacklisted me, straight up. Because he didn’t want to put himself at risk of losing land. That’s why the canons became split. Anyone directly involved with the clans at that time can vouch for that. The person you have whispering in your ear, however, is not one of those people.

Now, which leader are you referring to: Tom or Xivan? My answer varies depending on who you're talking about.

If Tom, I'm reasonably sure that was due to OOC harassment, as well as unwillingness on the other party to play on equitable terms. We acknowledged your RP'ed street riots and other shenanigans in Ardougne (Hell, I spectated one of those) that occurred at planned times where practically none of us were online. When we floated the idea of the same thing happening in Yanille, more peacefully, we were summarily rejected.

As for Xivan, well... next post. "Legacy. What is a legacy? It's planting seeds in a garden you never get to see."

Siberys | W42 RP'er |
Praise Madoka.

17-Jun-2019 22:00:54

Siberys

Siberys

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Now, to address the possibility of it being Xivan that's being referred to.

I'll preface this by saying that I did not agree with a lot of the decisions that took place, especially the subsequent powerplay. The two Kandarins were, for all intents and purposes, stable, up until the powerplayed takeover of Yanille. Hell, if you're curious on details, I distinctly recall sitting in a call with Xivan, Voden, and Rhys, all of us telling him explicitly not to do it. Unfortunately, other advisors won out, and I'd jumped ship by then.

That said, with all the stuff surrounding Tom, as well as apparent past experiences with the Vekon POK, Xivan wanting to continue the policy of non-interaction does not surprise me.

Neither of the two leaders blacklisted for the sake of holding land. They and friends they knew had been on the rough end of some more abrasive members of the POK, and they quite simply did not want to associate.

Now the actions that took place after I left, I could not and still cannot support. It doesn't matter how toxic someone is OOC, don't stoop to a similar or worse level by powerplaying someone else. That goes for both Xivan (and Dan's) Kandarin - and this new iteration. (Sorry, I'm blasting all guilty parties here.)

Apparently, I don't have enough characters still, so next post. "Legacy. What is a legacy? It's planting seeds in a garden you never get to see."

Siberys | W42 RP'er |
Praise Madoka.

17-Jun-2019 22:14:51

Lord Pyro I
Nov Member 2018

Lord Pyro I

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@Stu

No really that is not rule breaking. It's called "blacklisting" which under whatever name it is euphemistically referred to remains just as necessary as it ever was. If someone constantly breaks the rules over and over you don't have to acknowledge whatever nonesense they decide to come up with next.

As to your comments about activity I find your examples misleading at best. Ian may have at one time been trying to generate active RP in camelot, at the time in question he said he'd have to be "begged" to get membership again. Storm tried to create a single tournament once and that was months ago and no one turned up. Gale informed me was quitting, Valiesin when asked made no mention of RP plans involving Kandarin and the last thing I'd heard from Ovi was that while he did still have a character in Kandarin he was not currently having anything to do with the group.

It is true to say that several kandarin rpers did show up to fight against Castigo's invasion as indeed that pok could always be counted on to do so. To cling to their territory despite the fact that they do not even use it. And even then in an rp in which they heavily outnumbered the enemy there were clear signs of Kandarin rpers refusing to accept hits, refusing to accept the possibility that any of them could lose in this fight.

The original plan was to focus on an all out final IC invasion of Kandarin. but everything we have seen, just in the last few weeks only served to reinforce the conviction of many in our group that Kandarin is incapable of accepting it's own defeat. "The greatest endeavors are achieved because of their selfless intent"
#WarIsComing

17-Jun-2019 22:16:00

Siberys

Siberys

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Vekon said :
Void said :
Do any of us remember how bad the in-game harassment was? How awfully you ganged up and chased people off for daring to try and replace your imaginary power?
This sounds like something you heard out of your friends' mouth. The person who I apparently "chased off" was someone who inherited one half of the split canons of Kandarin. I have screenshots of him telling everyone in public that he intended to disrupt RP and cause disdain and problems for everyone, and that alone was his reason for his actions. The fact that you're trying to back him up here is ridiculous. Ironically, this is one of the people who inherited from the person mentioned in the paragraph above. I’m interested to see what other issues from 3-4 years ago you bring up in this argument.

You know, I personally would be interested in seeing those screencaps - only because that sounds wildly out of character for Xivan. The only problems he seemed intent on causing were for you guys (and once again, I state I do not support those actions). So, problems for everyone ? I remember him and Asgarnia being pretty chill. I don't recall issues with Misthalin. Just the two Kandarins.

That might be enough for now.

TL;DR: Sib tells both parties to get off their damn horses and plant their feet on solid ground. Enough with this holier-than-thou attitude from both parties - you've all made mistakes and so have I. Kudos to some of you for at least acknowledging you're human. "Legacy. What is a legacy? It's planting seeds in a garden you never get to see."

Siberys | W42 RP'er |
Praise Madoka.

17-Jun-2019 22:25:43

RiDaku
Oct Member 2012

RiDaku

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Vekon said :
Anyone directly involved with the clans at that time can vouch for that. The person you have whispering in your ear, however, is not one of those people.

also, I was literally one of the most active and involved people in that. I don't know why you don't remember me being involved in that whole thing, considering that I was the person who argued on your thread about it, was involved in two of the three "alternate" Kandarins (that I could find, I think Gabe/Neon Knights had one as well) that popped up over yours after Valiesin (is THAT how you spell the name? I legitimately feel dyslexic trying to spell it) handed the area off to Tom. Ironically enough, you claiming that you killed the character Val was playing in spite of him having handed things all over to Tom is... uh oh.....

But yeah. I was involved. I was so heavily involved that my actions wound up birthing an entire gods-damned inter-kingdom plot that started with the Camelot rebellions revolving around Blox and Dan pre-Dandarin, and culminated in Asgarnian, Misthalinian, and Kandarin people all joining my Mahjarrat in executing Bane (one of Pyro's characters), and you even debated with me on how my Mahjarrat would have used the ritual marker to absorb Bane's energy. The Sicarius |
They think they are "the many", and I "the few". They think this gives them the right to walk over me.

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17-Jun-2019 22:37:05 - Last edited on 17-Jun-2019 22:38:13 by RiDaku

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