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Chief Elf said :
Yes, I do agree with you. But the problem, you must understand, is that the pride flag was a reaction to the history of violences committed against them. No. That's not why it was created and first used. It was created to celebrate freedom, not oppression.

I'm not surprised that in today's society of being offended, people are being taught that the gay pride flag is symbolic of the violence, instead of being taught that the gay pride flag is symbolic of the freedom.

Chief Elf said :
Thats why I keep coming back to why a straight flag, which has a history of being the perpetrators of homophobic-motivated violence, is an issue because of the symbolism and potential messaging it carries. Wow. You literally just generalized EVERY hetero person as "the perpetrators of homophobic-motivated violence". You've taken the action of a minority of people in a group, and associated their behavior with the entire group.

What if I were to do that with the violence committed by a small minority gay people against hetero people?

What if I were to say:
"Thats why I keep coming back to why a gay flag, which has a history of being the perpetrators of heterophobic-motivated violence, is an issue because of the symbolism and potential messaging it carries."


Chief Elf said :
That's why when I said that once the violence against heterosexuals becomes an issue, then the symbolism changes. That's not how symbolism works. If I make something, I get to decide what it symbolizes. Not other people. If I say it symbolizes pride, then you don't get to decide that it symbolizes oppression.

You don't get to change what someone else's symbolism is.

If that were the case, I could just say the gay pride flag symbolizes hatred towards heteros, couldn't I? I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!

19-May-2019 08:57:27 - Last edited on 19-May-2019 08:58:28 by NexOrigin

Chief Elf said :
For example, now that I know that heterophobic-motivated violence is not reducing, I think there should be greater awareness about it. I don't think many members of the LGBT community or even straight people are aware of it. Unfortunately, the mainstream media manipulates the public by only sensationalizing the violence towards minority groups.

For example, whenever there is a hate crime against someone black, you can bet the media will be all over it.

However, when was the last time you saw the mainstream media reporting on a hate crime against someone white? Have you ever seen them report on it?

Go back and look at some of the FBI statistics:

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2017/tables/table-1.xls

Bias motivation
Anti-Black or African American - Incidents: 2,013
Anti-White - Incidents: 741


Clearly one is higher than the other, but, from the statistics, the mainstream media should be reporting a hate crime against a white person for every two reports of hate crimes against a black person. But that doesn't happen, does it?

Chief Elf said :
Also, I'm glad you did say this because it challenges our concepts of what we are allowed to hold onto - for example, to what extent is challenging a straight flag valid by the LGBT community? What other things does the LGBT community challenge which prevents the full enjoyment of rights by another group without the notion or connotation of discrimination? If you can't reverse the roles and have the same reaction or outcome, it's not equality. If the gay community would be offended by something, they can't engage in the same thing, and not expect others to have the same reaction. It goes both ways. Everyone needs to treat everyone equally. No one should have special rights, especially rights that allow them to infringe on the rights of others. We are all equal. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!

19-May-2019 09:12:06

Chief Elf said :
I think there's not much more I can contribute about the flag issue. It's all up to you to reflect on the history of what oppressed groups have endured, and compare it to the messaging of such a flag. Here's one thing oppressed groups need to understand: I'm not the one who oppressed you.

I might have the same skin color, or have the same gender, or have the same sexual orientation as those who oppressed you, but I never personally oppressed you. It's discrimination to view everyone in certain groups as part of an oppressive force when they had no part in it.

Chief Elf said :
And I get the whole thing about potentially being called homophobic or a bigot. We live in a time where there's so much political censorship and a certain level of sensitivity must be maintained to the point where we question if its reasonable to expect as such of the general population (for example, we shouldn't be vilified by not knowing someone's pronouns), Some of the legislation is completely insane. I'm completely pro-free speech. I think people should be able to express themselves, regardless of their opinions.

I'm totally against forced speech. Especially when it's something that was changed almost overnight without the consultation or consensus of the general public.

Gender (in relation to humans biology) has always been synonymous with sex. It's literally the categorization of humans based on sex. But no one really used it as the word gender in relation to human biology, as the word gender itself means "category, class, or kind". But, when the term "sexual intercourse" was shortened to the slang "sex" in the early 20th century, people started using the word gender to refer to human biology.

It wasn't until very recently that a small minority decided the word gender meant something different, and expected the rest of society to conform. And now you can be punished in certain places over it. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!

19-May-2019 09:32:44

https://www.etymonline.com/word/gender

Chief Elf said :
If you have any other arguments, it might take me a while to answer them. I think I'm falling sick and I can feel my brain shutting down and I can't recall what I wanted to say about a certain thing but anyways. I hope you're feeling better. I've enjoyed this. Thanks for taking the time. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!

19-May-2019 09:33:58 - Last edited on 19-May-2019 09:37:11 by NexOrigin

14-Jun-2019 10:39:11 - Last edited on 14-Jun-2019 10:48:30 by Niyah