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Chief Elf
Apr Member 2017

Chief Elf

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NexOrigin said :
Is there an International Day against Heterophobia?

I don't know, but why not? Though, I've never come across someone who's heterophobic in my life, and I've not seen a case of it before. Probably because most people in the world are heterosexual. 4.1% of Australian men identify as homosexual. The cases of heterophobia are rare, (I haven't read any news article about it), and of course, the level of homophobia is significantly larger than heterophobia.

There's no law in the world that will sentence you to death for being straight.
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17-May-2019 18:49:19 - Last edited on 17-May-2019 18:50:26 by Chief Elf

Chief Elf
Apr Member 2017

Chief Elf

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NexOrigin said :
I would consider this to be heterophobic:

https://canoe.com/news/national/new-brunswick-village-faces-backlash-after-council-raises-straight-flag


If there was suddenly a trend of bashing straight people, of violence against straight people, or abuse of heterosexuals, you can bet that people would be rising against it. For so long the LGBT community have preached the message of love.

Most of my friends are heterosexual, I don't want them to have to fear for their lives or safety just because of their sexual orientation. Unfortunately, this is the case for homosexuals.

I don't have an issue if there was a straight flag raised because of an alarming pattern of hate crimes against heterosexuals.

But what did raising a straight flag in the context of the article, attempt to achieve?

Where in history were people being marginalized because of their heterosexuality?

We can't deny the overwhelming cases of violence against LGBT in history. That's the whole reason of having a day like Internal Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia because we want to raise awareness, let our voices be heard, and stand in solidarity against prejudice as well as violence.

There are many days like this that celebrates minorities - the whole point is to foster tolerance and stop marginalization.

If there was no homophobia, of course we wouldn't need events like these to raise awareness.
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17-May-2019 19:16:56 - Last edited on 17-May-2019 19:19:24 by Chief Elf

NexOrigin

NexOrigin

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If a gay pride flag were raised and people demanded it to be removed, those people would be considered homophobic.

Yet, when the reverse happens...

It's like when people claim they can't be racist because they're not white... the old "reverse racism doesn't exist" narrative. It's not "reverse racism", its just racism.

That's not how it works. You don't get to claim discrimination, and then justify your own discrimination.


Here's another example:
https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/04/13/straight-pride-flag-pulled-from-amazon-after-online-mocking/
I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great! :)

17-May-2019 19:24:18

Chief Elf
Apr Member 2017

Chief Elf

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Like I've said before Nex, it's fine if there was a straight flag raised to symbolise a fight against the abuses and violence committed against heterosexuals.

The issue with raising a straight flag, at this point of time, is that it can be perceived as mocking or making light of the issue of discrimination against hetereosexuals. I do hope you understand the perspective here.

Also, we don't 'claim' discrimination. It's pretty evident around the world in many different countries of the level of intolerance against LGBT.

Again, to highlight what the first article is trying to explain, the straight flag being raised can be perceived as mocking or diminishing the level of injustice suffered by LGBT community which occurs globally.

Now what would be discriminatory?

For example, a bakery that only sells cakes to homosexuals can be considered discriminatory.
Or maybe a group of homosexuals ganging up on one heterosexual person, bullying them, and committing acts of violence against them based on their sexual orientation.

Or a law that bans heterosexuals from getting married or being in a relationship.

..

Now what could be an appropriate flag?

If there was another flag that symbolised the alliance of LGBT-heterosexuals preaching the message of love, that's more than fine.

I do hope you see why raising a straight flag at this present moment can be seen as an insult. Heterosexuals - the majority - have never suffered abuses of their rights based on their sexual orientation. They've never been beaten up, never been viewed as 'unnatural' by the legal system, never been marginalized, never been killed - based on their sexual orientation. One reason for this is because... they are the majority.. they'd simply wipe homosexuals out if they had come to that point. So when you raise a straight flag, what is the message you're trying to deliver? When have heterosexuals ever had to fight for their rights based on their sexual orientation?

..

[to be continued]
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18-May-2019 05:26:55 - Last edited on 18-May-2019 05:41:18 by Chief Elf

Chief Elf
Apr Member 2017

Chief Elf

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[continued]

To your second statement, yes that is a completely valid point. Simply because you're not white doesn't mean you're not racist. In fact my father (a white man) married my mother (an asian woman) and he frequently espouses discriminatory statements against certain groups of people. I told him, "Dad, that's racist." And he said, "I can't be racist, I married your mother."

However, your argument does not so much apply in this context. Why? Because those groups are not trying to marginalise straight people at all. They're not trying to prevent a reasonable enjoyment of their rights. They're trying to prevent a symbol with an implied message that diminishes the acknowledgement of suffering that the LGBT community has endured for so many years.

Again, if a public service ran by homosexuals refuse those services to heterosexuals based on their sexual orientation, not only is it ironic, it's discriminatory. Then, it could provide an argument for raising a straight flag.

If it comes to a point where heterosexuals are being abused, being treated poorly and unfairly, that it becomes a pressing issue, then I'd happily raise the flag with them. But really, it hasn't come to the point yet.

But if I were to use your example again, being homosexual does not automatically disqualify you from being discriminatory towards heterosexuals. If I went up to a straight person in the toilet and started beating the crap out of him just because he was straight, that's discrimination.

...

The first article you provided explains why raising a straight flag at this point of time is an issue. Explains it better than me.

I think I've done what I can to explain the situation, so beyond that, is just understanding from your side.
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18-May-2019 05:38:34 - Last edited on 18-May-2019 05:42:59 by Chief Elf

NexOrigin

NexOrigin

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It's funny. You downplay any anti-hetero violence as though it doesn't occur.

It does occur.

n fact, it occurs at a highly disproportionate rate. Sure, it's only what, 40 cases per year or so that it happens, but, the percentage of the gay population is what, 1%? Do the math, you'll see it's highly disproportionate to the amount of anti-gay violence that happens, when you compare the size of the populations.

How much violence do heteros need to endure before they're allowed to raise a hetero flag?

Who makes up these rules?


Somehow, a gay pride flag isn't violating the rights of heteros, but somehow a hetero pride flag violates the rights of gays?

Nah dawg, that's not apt.


Chief Elf said :
If there was another flag that symbolised the alliance of LGBT-heterosexuals preaching the message of love, that's more than fine. That's kind of hypocritical. The gay pride flag doesn't symbolize any kind of LGB-hetero alliance. Yet, a hetero pride flag is expected to symbolize it?

Why?

Why can't heteros be proud of whom they are?

It seems like the only people who are allowed to have pride are those in minority or "marginalized" groups.

Black Pride? No problem.
White Pride? That's racist apparently.

Female Pride? No problem.
Male Pride? That's sexist apparently.

Gay Pride? No problem.
Straight Pride? That's homophobic apparently.



See the issue here?


We're all equal. We're all human. We all deserve to be proud of who we are.

But apparently that's not how certain groups think. Certain groups think they're allowed to be proud, but if other groups are proud, that somehow think that means their own pride is being marginalized by someone else's pride.

It's hypocrisy. It's illogical. It's a clown world.

The rational thing would have been to ask to fly a gay pride flag alongside the hetero pride flag. But nope, that doesn't happen. They demand the hetero flag be taken down instead. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great! :)

19-May-2019 07:10:27 - Last edited on 19-May-2019 07:13:53 by NexOrigin

Chief Elf
Apr Member 2017

Chief Elf

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Nex, I'm not sure how with all the examples I've provided you came to the conclusion that I've attempted to downplay violence against heterosexuals. I even stated that if violence were to occur against individuals based on their sexual orientation (heterosexuality), that there is probably cause to raise a straight flag. Again, if there was a pattern of abuse against heterosexuals based on their sexual orientation, you know I'm going to stand against it.

Really, the message I'm trying to send here is that the whole point of raising an LGBT flag or to have days like this, was for people to come together in solidarity, against the trends and patterns of abuse as well as violence committed against LGBT. This isn't a symbol of war against heterosexuality.

Please do not strawman my argument. You know I will never downplay violence of that kind.

I'm not sure why you chose to isolate that statement of mine, and call it hypocritical because again, the whole purpose of an LGBT flag is that the LGBT community have endured violence after violence, and we want to come together, to stand against such violences.

I've already said my piece about the straight flag think and I want you to reflect on the message that a straight flag has in this time period.

How much violence do heteros need to endure before raising a flag? Well, hopefully none. But let's talk about the level of violence that heteros do endure? What are the statistics? Can you present that? Then look at the statistics of violence committed against LGBT persons and look at the history of that.

...

Yes, heterosexuals should be proud of who they are. Who told you you couldn't? Why did you make the inference that because certain things are perceived discriminatory which is entirely subjective and argumentative, that it comes to the conclusion that heterosexuals are not to be proud of who they are?

[tbc...]
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19-May-2019 07:27:39 - Last edited on 19-May-2019 07:40:37 by Chief Elf

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