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Your rationalization is that someone needs to personally have been victim to violence in order to raise a pride flag. Does that apply to all gay people too? Does someone have to be a victim to anti-gay violence in order to raise a pride flag? Can someone raise a pride flag on behalf of someone else?
Chief Elf said :
How much violence do heteros need to endure before raising a flag? Well, hopefully none. And yet, you're still against the raising of a hetero pride flag. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
Chief Elf said :
How much violence do heteros need to endure before raising a flag? Well, hopefully none. And yet, you're still against the raising of a hetero pride flag. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
19-May-2019 07:40:46
Chief Elf
said
:
But let's talk about the level of violence that heteros do endure? What is the statistic? Can you present that? Then look at the statistics of violence committed against LGBT persons. Absolutely I can present it.
In 2013, law enforcement agencies reported 1,402 hate crime offenses based on sexual-orientation bias. Of these offenses 1.7 percent were the result of an anti-heterosexual bias.
In 2014, law enforcement agencies reported 1,178 hate crime offenses based on sexual orientation bias. Of these offenses 1.5 percent were the result of an anti-heterosexual bias.
In 2015, law enforcement agencies reported 1,219 hate crime offenses based on sexual-orientation bias. Of these offenses 1.9 percent were the result of an anti-heterosexual bias.
In 2016, law enforcement agencies reported 1,218 hate crime offenses based on sexual-orientation bias. Of these offenses 1.9 percent were the result of an anti-heterosexual bias.
In 2017, law enforcement agencies reported 1,303 hate crime offenses based on sexual-orientation bias. Of these offenses 2.1 percent were classified as anti-bisexual bias.
Now, keep in mind, the gay population is about 1% of the total population. Proportionally, based on population sizes, anti-hetero violence is more prevalent than anti-gay violence.
I'm not trying to downplay the violence against gay people. But, for the size of the gay community, they disproportionately commit anti-hetero violence. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
But let's talk about the level of violence that heteros do endure? What is the statistic? Can you present that? Then look at the statistics of violence committed against LGBT persons. Absolutely I can present it.
In 2013, law enforcement agencies reported 1,402 hate crime offenses based on sexual-orientation bias. Of these offenses 1.7 percent were the result of an anti-heterosexual bias.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2013/topic-pages/incidents-and-offenses/incidentsandoffenses_final
In 2014, law enforcement agencies reported 1,178 hate crime offenses based on sexual orientation bias. Of these offenses 1.5 percent were the result of an anti-heterosexual bias.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2014/topic-pages/incidentsandoffenses_final
In 2015, law enforcement agencies reported 1,219 hate crime offenses based on sexual-orientation bias. Of these offenses 1.9 percent were the result of an anti-heterosexual bias.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2015/topic-pages/incidentsandoffenses_final
In 2016, law enforcement agencies reported 1,218 hate crime offenses based on sexual-orientation bias. Of these offenses 1.9 percent were the result of an anti-heterosexual bias.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2016/topic-pages/incidentsandoffenses
In 2017, law enforcement agencies reported 1,303 hate crime offenses based on sexual-orientation bias. Of these offenses 2.1 percent were classified as anti-bisexual bias.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2017/topic-pages/incidents-and-offenses
Now, keep in mind, the gay population is about 1% of the total population. Proportionally, based on population sizes, anti-hetero violence is more prevalent than anti-gay violence.
I'm not trying to downplay the violence against gay people. But, for the size of the gay community, they disproportionately commit anti-hetero violence. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
19-May-2019 07:45:29
Chief Elf
said
:
The whole point of pride of those marginalized groups was to speak out against the opressors. Have a look at the history of such opression and what they've done. Have a look at the symbolism they used, and what they've raised, in assertion of their dominance as a majority in continuing their oppression based on their prejudice. Who decided what the rules on being proud were?
Who decided that you can only be proud if you have been marginalized or oppressed?
Funny how the only group that isn't allowed to be proud at all, are straight white males.
Which, in it of itself, is oppressive to straight white males.
Thus, using the logic presented here, straight white males have the right to raise a pride flag for being oppressed and marginalized.
It's a ridiculous notion that you need to be oppressed to be able to have pride. It's a ridiculous notion that certain people are allowed to have pride, while others having pride is offensive, or marginalizes someone else's pride. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
The whole point of pride of those marginalized groups was to speak out against the opressors. Have a look at the history of such opression and what they've done. Have a look at the symbolism they used, and what they've raised, in assertion of their dominance as a majority in continuing their oppression based on their prejudice. Who decided what the rules on being proud were?
Who decided that you can only be proud if you have been marginalized or oppressed?
Funny how the only group that isn't allowed to be proud at all, are straight white males.
Which, in it of itself, is oppressive to straight white males.
Thus, using the logic presented here, straight white males have the right to raise a pride flag for being oppressed and marginalized.
It's a ridiculous notion that you need to be oppressed to be able to have pride. It's a ridiculous notion that certain people are allowed to have pride, while others having pride is offensive, or marginalizes someone else's pride. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
19-May-2019 07:49:42
We're all human. We're all equal. We need to treat everyone equally.
Everyone needs to have the same rights.
Telling someone that they can't raise their flag (for whatever reason) isn't equality, nor is it encouraging inclusion. If someone raises a flag, and it isn't your flag, then talk to them, and see if they would be willing to raise more flags, one for every group that asks.
Denying people something as simple as raising a pride flag is discrimination. Even if you think you can rationalize or justify your reasons behind denying them their right to raise their pride flag, its still discrimination by the very definition of the word.
No one needs a reason to raise a pride flag. They only need to be proud. Denying someone the right to be proud, isn't inclusive, isn't equality, and doesn't promote acceptance. It simply promotes bigotry. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
Everyone needs to have the same rights.
Telling someone that they can't raise their flag (for whatever reason) isn't equality, nor is it encouraging inclusion. If someone raises a flag, and it isn't your flag, then talk to them, and see if they would be willing to raise more flags, one for every group that asks.
Denying people something as simple as raising a pride flag is discrimination. Even if you think you can rationalize or justify your reasons behind denying them their right to raise their pride flag, its still discrimination by the very definition of the word.
No one needs a reason to raise a pride flag. They only need to be proud. Denying someone the right to be proud, isn't inclusive, isn't equality, and doesn't promote acceptance. It simply promotes bigotry. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
19-May-2019 07:57:48
A pride flag should signify pride. There shouldn't need to be any context required to justify the raising of any flag. If someone is proud of who they are, they should be able to raise their own pride flag at any time, without other people claiming that it marginalizes or infringes on some other group's rights.
Someone shouldn't have to provide FBI statistics in order to have to justify the raising of a flag.
People shouldn't need to justify their reasons for raising a flag at all.
Imagine the outrage by the gay community if someone were to do the exact same thing, and request that they justify their reasons for raising their gay pride flag, and request them to provide statistics that uphold the narrative being presented.
if everyone is equal, then everyone should be able to raise a flag, without question, regardless of what group they belong to.
Chief Elf said :
Then, as you've said, raising a straight flag next to an LGBT flag with the intention of raising this awareness is valid. Now in this context, the straight flag no longer carries a connotation that has the potential to mock or diminish the purpose of having an LGBT flag. Does raising a gay pride flag mock or diminish hetero people? Then why would the opposite be true?
Double standards are bad. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
Someone shouldn't have to provide FBI statistics in order to have to justify the raising of a flag.
People shouldn't need to justify their reasons for raising a flag at all.
Imagine the outrage by the gay community if someone were to do the exact same thing, and request that they justify their reasons for raising their gay pride flag, and request them to provide statistics that uphold the narrative being presented.
if everyone is equal, then everyone should be able to raise a flag, without question, regardless of what group they belong to.
Chief Elf said :
Then, as you've said, raising a straight flag next to an LGBT flag with the intention of raising this awareness is valid. Now in this context, the straight flag no longer carries a connotation that has the potential to mock or diminish the purpose of having an LGBT flag. Does raising a gay pride flag mock or diminish hetero people? Then why would the opposite be true?
Double standards are bad. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
19-May-2019 08:19:19 - Last edited on 19-May-2019 08:22:51 by NexOrigin
I'm glad we can have this discussion in a calm and rational manner, even if we disagree,
I totally respect the fact that we can have this discussion in a civil manner.
It seems to be a rare occurrence these days... everyone is so quick to be offended, so I really appreciate you taking the time to have this discussion with me.
I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels the same way I do, but I'm sure a lot of them aren't willing to speak up, for fear of being called homophobic or a bigot, etc. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
I totally respect the fact that we can have this discussion in a civil manner.
It seems to be a rare occurrence these days... everyone is so quick to be offended, so I really appreciate you taking the time to have this discussion with me.
I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels the same way I do, but I'm sure a lot of them aren't willing to speak up, for fear of being called homophobic or a bigot, etc. I'm better than you, but that doesn't mean you're not great!
19-May-2019 08:30:27
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