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Is free speech important?

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Wolfblue42

Wolfblue42

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Raleirosen said :
WarmongerJ said :
Wolfblue42 said :
So I don't the concept will ever actually work in reality. the words of someone ignorant enough to fail to recognize the worth of their culture. either travel or open a book.

=[

Though the government can't jail you over unpopular ideas, the angry mob mentality that ensues over any controversial opinion is pretty much why it remains an ideal not a reality.

Then there's the people who preach you can say as you like but f off westboro baptist church or any controversial figures/dissenting opinion.

Though people won't be jailed they sure as hell will be strongarmed in another manner by either firing from jobs or humilated to the point they have to delete/apologize whatever they said.

29-Aug-2018 02:03:13

Telcis

Telcis

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Yingyangboy6 said :
Telcis said :
Would you agree that freedom of speech can be abused?

Lol.

No. It can not.
Then why bother with laws about libel, defamation and other criminal offences that could be considered freedom of speech?
I don't think you have thought enough about it, maybe you should.

29-Aug-2018 03:46:14

Yingyangboy6

Yingyangboy6

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Telcis said :

Then why bother with laws about libel, defamation and other criminal offences that could be considered freedom of speech?
I don't think you have thought enough about it, maybe you should.

Maybe you should think about it more, because at least where I am from, they AREN'T crimes.

29-Aug-2018 05:22:20 - Last edited on 29-Aug-2018 05:23:15 by Yingyangboy6

Raleirosen

Raleirosen

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FiFi LaFeles said :
Has it ever occurred to you to have a polite discourse with someone without ridiculing or belittling them? it's not a discourse until they respond, so might as well open with a little ridicule. and in any case, ridiculing what someone says isn't the same as ridiculing their person. I try to stick to the former, but sometimes it bleeds over. also, I recall agreeing with you twice in another thread and you responded with some belittlement of your own. do you take your own advice?
Wolfblue42 said :
Though the government can't jail you over unpopular ideas, the angry mob mentality that ensues over any controversial opinion is pretty much why it remains an ideal not a reality. do you understand that responding to someone's opinion with your own opinion doesn't contradict freedom of speech, that that's how the ideal of free speech is implemented in reality?

my comment about traveling or opening a book was meant to highlight the difference between our "mob mentality" culture, in which people are verbally attacked for controversial opinions, and parts of the world where the mob mentality takes the form of honor killings and blood feuds. imagine if the public humiliations you're lamenting were actually public lynchings. then realize that's the reality for parts of the world where free speech is an alien concept. if you take the time to read and think about these things -- or better yet, travel -- before voicing your opinion you can avoid sounding like a sheltered first-world idiot.
Telcis said :
With the spamming of incorrect opinions to drown out fact. yes, that's one of the many problems resulting from ever-expanding information technology. sadly it all points to a simulacrum-type future in which reality is malleable for every individual, but that's all the more reason to advocate for shared universal values like freedom of speech. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

29-Aug-2018 05:38:44 - Last edited on 29-Aug-2018 05:54:56 by Raleirosen

Yingyangboy6

Yingyangboy6

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Raleirosen said :

Telcis said :
With the spamming of incorrect opinions to drown out fact. yes, that's one of the many problems resulting from ever-expanding information technology. sadly it all points to a simulacrum-type future in which reality is malleable for every individual. but that's all the more reason to advocate for shared universal values like freedom of speech.

But....BUT DEFAMATION!

HOW WILL WE EVER DEAL WITH THAT?!

29-Aug-2018 05:53:09

Telcis

Telcis

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Yingyangboy6 said :

Maybe you should think about it more, because at least where I am from, they AREN'T crimes.
Would you like to share the name of the country?
Had a look at some first world countries, couldn't find one that doesn't consider libel/slander/defamation a crime.

Raleirosen said :
yes, that's one of the many problems resulting from ever-expanding information technology. sadly it all points to a simulacrum-type future in which reality is malleable for every individual. but that's all the more reason to advocate for shared universal values like freedom of speech.
Yes, I agree. We do need to work out a more universal idea about freedom of speech and other basic human rights.
With that I do hope that quality of information is added.

29-Aug-2018 05:57:23

Raleirosen

Raleirosen

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WarmongerJ said :
Edit: I'm pretty sure we interpreted the text I quoted differently. From what it appears, we both support free speech (correct me if I'm wrong). I simply quoted that selection as it shows that, while many people advocate for free speech, they only do so when it doesn't oppose their held views/ ideology. Hence, free speech will never truly happen as there will always be someone who has their feels hurt and start some "feels movement" through social media (for example). This "feels movement" may lead to censorship down the line. those failures don't represent a failure of free speech, either as an ideal or in practice. they're the failures of individuals and groups and should be condemned by all liberally minded people, not used as evidence for why free speech will only ever be an ideal -- which is what I took both your and Wolfblue's comments to mean. the reality of free expression is seen everywhere in the Western world and can be personally and vicariously experienced. for example, think about the difference between wearing a miniskirt in Medina vs. doing so in San Francisco, the difference between insulting someone's mother in Murmansk vs. in New York. again, you should probably either read, travel or both. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

29-Aug-2018 06:09:04 - Last edited on 29-Aug-2018 06:12:56 by Raleirosen

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