RuneScape Forum Archive | Invention Quick Fixes

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hey thanks a lot for the input. I'll go for your points one by one:

- Yeah basically I wanted to shuffle around Impatient and Invigorating a bit - since perks affecting special attacks are usually bound to those affecting either ultimates or thresholds and auto attack affecting ones grouped with basic abilities. In regards of invigorating it's the current auto attacks effect also applied to basic abilities (we alternatively could shove the impatient effect as is on it alternatively of course). Your idea regarding crits could be extremely interesting, but I imagine this could be really too strong in AoE scenarios.
- Added Shield Bashing.
- Added Explosives
- Added the changes to crafted parts
- Added the changes to planted feet. I generally prefer round numbers rather than percentages for durations, since they're clearer to understand on the first sight (and also do not cause weird to potentially making them useless rounding issues like bulwark rank 1) - rounded it down to 1.8 seconds per rank to accomodate the tick system.
- The improved odds for getting better perks is part of the design of the skill - albeit with the current values it's placebo at best. I do not actually believe noxious would be too devalued, since while you could biting 3 with uncommon components, you should be able to create biting 3 + something else with noxious then, since rare rewards are not only able to create higher levelled perks sooner, but you're also getting a bonus for using rare components to the level bonus in my design. Albeit I've admittingly written that at a time, where high invention levels literally were useless for anything, but having an higher number displayed.
- The tampering system sounds interesting, I'll keep my mind on it. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

23-Aug-2019 07:18:42

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

- Yeah - that also was written at a time where fortunates were absolutely worthless (and they still are in terms of perks). I don't think it would hurt to have it for consistency, especially when it opens up combinations again, that can't be done with uncommons and commons. Your alternative suggesting with it providing luck could be interesting as well - but perks usually do not require players to own items in order to work. I am certainly in favour to the base idea since I prefer unique perks for rares over it just could create a single one in high levels, but I need to make my mind about how to properly include it.
- Tradeable gizmos akin to POF animals is a great addition. Added it. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

23-Aug-2019 07:22:10 - Last edited on 23-Aug-2019 07:23:57 by Rikornak

Caden Gard

Posts: 1,145 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

General QoL & Augments (Good stuff here!)

- Allow to deactivate machines in the Invention Guild in order to preserve energy. They can be re-activated as long as enough energy is available
Machines can be deactivated singly by removing materials, or collectively by pulling out Divine charges.
- Tech trees (None of this seems necessary to me, sorry.)
- Perks (mixed bag here; some seem brilliant, others seem unnecessary or even heavy-handed)

Overall, only a handful of these looked bad, the rest are pretty darn good.
Support!

[Graphics] Drivers Wanted.

09-Sep-2019 00:13:24

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hey - thanks a lot for your input. Trying to give you insight to how this stuff came to be:

- Are you really able to build more machines just because a few of them are not active? It at least wasn't like that when the invention guild extension was released and I can't recall to ever having read something about that in the patch notes.
- The problem with tech trees is the way they could be progressed. You could be ultra lucky, you could to occassionally do something you do not really want to do (since a couple of those tasks are really awful) or you could deadlock yourself with a lot of bad luck (i.e. by eventually having the same awful task you just can't do for some reason five times). Of course I am not really sure if the task system is ever supposed to be continued, but if it is (since the base idea isn't that bad to be honest), that is stuff that should be sorted out
- Generally my intention regarding the perks would be offering alternatives, since some of them just need a small push to be made interesting - and as a consequence the rare materials they're assigned to. I wouldn't want to shake the meta much, but it could be enriching if some new combinations would work then. Any specific examples you're having issues with? Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

09-Sep-2019 06:37:35 - Last edited on 09-Sep-2019 06:38:00 by Rikornak

Sep

2013

I ate all

Posts: 1,531 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Asking other inventors for perk preferences, and it seems the most unpopular positive perks are Turtling, Shield Bashing, and Preperation.

Perks like Reflexes and Flanking are used because you benefit from them frequently, as the abilities they effect have low CDs.

Perks like Preperation and Turtling have trade offs that keep up time the same. Shield Bashing affected an ability not used for damage and with reasonably long CD.

I did suggest a Shield Bashing effect replacement earlier which you added to the main post, which would be more viable as Shield Bash has a shorter CD and is more designed for DPS than Debilitate, while being appealing to soloers who take a lot of damage and want to deal more.

Clear Headed remains popular in combination with Reflexes, as you can get decent stun immunity. It's fine as is.

Suggested changes:

Preparation - New effect: 10% per rank chance when hit of reducing CD of Resonance by 1s.

Resonance is a fairly popular ability among tanks, but Preparation perk does not improve the effect or abilities up time on top of effecting only one ability, making it underwhelming. This new effect makes the perk passively reduce the CD independently from the ability.

Turtling - New effect: Adds +10% duration and cooldown per rank to Barricade, Revenge, Reflect, and Immortality.

Normally only affects Barricade, but changed to affect all threshold/ultimate defense buff abilities that require a shield.

It's important to note "+10% duration and cooldown" does not increase ability uptime, just makes it so you can activate those abilities less often to maintain their max up time. It's really insignificant compared to perks that outright buff damage or reduce damage reduction, but if it were to affect multiple abilities it could start to be more mainstream for tanks rather than a swap. of the elves

10-Sep-2019 07:00:06 - Last edited on 10-Sep-2019 08:09:58 by I ate all

Sep

2013

I ate all

Posts: 1,531 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Bulwark you suggested should be changed by 6% to 0.6s which is fine, but I think the damage penalty should be removed due to how little you gain from it. Still, it remains fairly popular among tanks as damage reduction is all that really matters in their case.

Replace negative perks with weak/niche perks:

Negative perks seem kind of pointless as they're only obtained from cheap parts/components, so players will simply re-roll again. They also punish low-levelled players from trying perks early on, making them have to wait for mid-high level until they can access good ones.

Replacing negative perks with weak/niche perks gives them some benefit for using gizmos, just not the best. Replacement examples: (Max rank stays the same)

Junk Food -> Snacking: Food heals 2% less, but also you lose 2% less adrenaline for eating food.

Profane -> Thirsty: Drinking anything heals you 50 LPs. Includes pots, teas, and waterskins.

Inaccurate -> Perservering: Missing increases the accuracy of your next attack by 1% per rank.

Mediocrity -> Alternating: (Armor only) While in combat, every 4.8s damage yourself for 2% per rank of your max LPs then 2.4s later heal for 2% per rank of your max LPs. Self-damage does not trigger Resonance or Revenge.

Use: The self-damage is affected by damage reduction effects, so you get a small net gain of health. It may also charge Reprisal.

Mob Bait perks -> Mob Truce: You both deal and take 7% less damage from the respective mob.

Commited -> Vengeful: Resurrecting grants you +5% damage, accuracy, and damage reduction per rank for 10s.

Very strong effect, but very specific trigger conditions. Sign/Portent of Life/Death, Mofvan Enhancer, or Immortality abilities resurrection.

Cheapskate -> Quick-selling: 3% chance per rank of low level alching an item when obtained.

Confused -> Interested: 2% chance per rank of granting a +1 stat boost when gathering a resource.

Antithiesm -> Sacred: +2 prayer bonus on this item. of the elves

10-Sep-2019 07:11:07 - Last edited on 09-Nov-2019 20:31:18 by I ate all

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I generally think the stuff that needs to be regarded most are so called trade-off perks: Perks that have both an advantage and a disadvantage - Jagex usually is fairly bad at designing those, because they're more than often enough not worth to be bothered to use - take alone a look at the initial incarnation of equilibrium. Generally players shouldn't be punished for using perks that are intended to be positive ones

Yeah generally I agree that single ability modifiers also are not ideally designed - also in regards of our limited gizmo slots available.

Preparation sounds really neat. Fitted it into the tick system.

Turtling as is might be dangerous. Depending on what you're fighting - or what might be released in the future - you could lock yourself out of available cooldowns to counter a potentially lethal mechanic. That is what I mean with tradeoffs - a weaker effect, without a tradeoff might be more preferable, such as increasing the duration by 5 % per rank, without increasing the cooldown - that of course could once again lead to making the perk disfunctional with lower levelled shields and defenders. Maybe again a tick per rank?

Bulwark sounds fair either, I generally just was more about fixing a broken mechanic in here. But yet again it would go well among the thesis that Jagex isn't good in designing trade-offs.

I am generally not too fond of the existence of negative perks and I certainly would prefer those niche alternatives as replacements. I'll refer to your list for that aspect. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

11-Sep-2019 06:50:44

Sep

2013

I ate all

Posts: 1,531 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Perks such as Turtling and Preparation have a slight benefit in that you get more value per activation with the increased duration. It's just very minuet hence I mentioned adding other abilities to add value.

If Turtling simply added 5% with the same tick rounding, it would add +0.6s per rank rather than 1.2s. Kind of doubt many players would dedicate a perk slot just for +1.8s for an Ultimate.

The definition of Turtling is having a "100% defensive tactic, usually at a fixed position". What if had an effect like "every second you're not moving, 7% chance of defensive buff durations not depleting."

Example: At rank 2, if you have Anticipation active and the buff timer is ticking down, every second you have a 14% chance its timer freezes for 1s, increasing the duration for 1s. However while moving this does not trigger.

Something I REALLY appreciated when Invention was released was the economy became insanely good and profitable. You could sell just about anything because some billionaire would buy it all to dismantle, making it beneficial for low levels and high levelled players who want the best gear possible. It also upped the value of various gear like Dwarf Handcannons that were once dead, but players started sinking them via dismantling for components.

I created a thread regarding this, rare drops should have some desirable component in order to incentivize players to obtain/buy them, keeping their sources profitable.

Not exactly a "fix" but something as simple as a component icon and a perk effect to bring up value of rare drops, something Invention helped out greatly on release. of the elves

13-Sep-2019 06:13:36 - Last edited on 13-Sep-2019 06:15:50 by I ate all

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Yeah - with just one cooldown I do not see an issue to have turtling work like it does - it's certainly not ideal, but still niche enough. When it affects a whole line-up of abilities as a trade off it easily could lead to the issues I've described.

The question is if the third proposal would remove a functionality that is currently wanted by a few players. I certainly like the idea by its theme, but I think it might be better used for an entirely new perk.

Invention as a economical stabilizer certainly was a great addition and it also made stores relevant for once - the best gold sinks are those that continously leech of many players after all, rather than those which do it with a big amount once from just a few - sadly they broke it for metallic items with the mining & smithing rework.

In general I think it would be better to make existing materials relevant first - either by using them to create something or making them actually interesting for perks (or combinations of them) (see how saradomin components currently simply are outright inferior to zamorakian ones for instance) before introducing more with new perks. I certainly am in favour of making items more appealing (i.e. also by assigning currently existing fitting rare components to existing rare items), but they really should fix the existing stuff first. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

16-Sep-2019 06:14:23

Sep

2013

I ate all

Posts: 1,531 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I had a discussion about this on Reddit, when someone suggested adding more sinks for Fortunate components and I disagreed, saying we need more uses for other rare components.

Notably, Rumbling and Noxious components. You need to dismantle T90 weapons and armor for these, yet all you get is Biting 3 and Equilibrium 3 isn't popular as players can get P4/E2 with just Precise components.

I can't really think of a "Quick Fix" for this, as they'd need to create some high tier stuff to justify dismantling T90 for these.

One suggestion people seemed to like on Reddit is using Noxious components to wrap shields/defenders in Arraxyte web, creating T92 "Webbed" variants.

As a passive effect, roughly every 30s it protects the player in a blanket of web for 5s, reducing and deflecting damage by 5% and healing 100 per second. Based on Arraxor's web attack.

The other was using Rumbling components to create a Vorago's Red Bomb ability codex, which is a constitution ability that deals more damage to your target the more enemies are near them. (Basically punishes monsters/bosses who use minions) of the elves

16-Sep-2019 22:31:46

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Invention Quick Fixes