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(F2P) QoL Improvements v2

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Tuks

Tuks

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-Ah ok, I'm starting to understand what you mean with by bringing magic and ranged f2p up to t60. When the M/S rework launches f2p will have up to possibly t70 melee weaps and armor. So allowing higher tiered ranged and magic will give parity, so melee isn't the most op in f2p.

-The temple knight gear in my eyes are designed to be prayer gear, and that's why their armor rating is bad. So if they buff temple knight armor rating at the expense of its prayer bonus then I'd prefer it to stay the same way it is.

-Blurite ore should be obsolete then after the quest. If f2p gets access to higher tiered ammo then it has no purpose aside from its quest function. That is unless they do make it an elemental ore with some other benefit.

- Still not convinced we need smith-able defenders.

-Magic logs/ Green drags. I remember the days when runescape was so infested with bots that it was impossible to get logs from yew trees, and green drags in the wildy always had bots camping them 24/7. Legitimate skillers need to be protected from them, and that is a real concern of mine.
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08-Dec-2016 21:11:40 - Last edited on 08-Dec-2016 21:13:45 by Tuks

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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I am glad you're getting my points, so I'll add something in for the remainder:

- I personally doubt f2p will get t70 stuff and I think the current system is okay (50 non-degrading, 55 degrading, 60 degrade to dust). If they change this design it is okay as well, but it will make things more complicated

- Prayer bonus never leeches of item budget, it always comes as an extra (compare white and black armour for that or as a p2p example nex armours and anima core). Temple knight armour is as bad as it is because it is too low leveled (and this is the only thing I want to change).

- Blurite is solely used for cosmetic items (crossbow and swords) and jagex streamlined the process for members (so why not for f2p as well?)

- Defenders are more a QoL thing (this also was done in thought of invention - they're an unique disassembly category after all), I'll move it to the experimental corner though as soon as the mining/smithing rework is live

- Magic logs/Green d'hide: My issue is in here we're basically talking about low and lower medium leveled materials nowadays (same thing with the currently massively overpriced runite (which will be fixed as well with the M/S rework)). I know those items were top end stuff at some time, but since then over a decade has passed and it should be treated as what it is: Low and lower medium leveled materials. I guess we'll see how the new mining will work out. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

09-Dec-2016 05:56:23 - Last edited on 09-Dec-2016 06:17:21 by Rikornak

Fire Hawk154

Fire Hawk154

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The membership icon will disappear after someone has lost his status after a while (look at few 5.2b players at the highscore), for runelabs I must admit I do not see any traces for membership past quests and skills. I am personally not fan of how TH is handled either, but I guess your 'cheater-free' highscore list would be the ironman one. 'Easy' isn't the right word for skilling as it just is repeating stuff

F2P doesn't have activity in RuneMetrics while P2P does, so if someone trains in P2P their activity stays visible even when they become F2P and their badge is removed. ;) F2P is currently already quite cheater free as bonus XP can't be used outside of BXP weekends and XP lamps from TH are quite uncommon. The Ironman Hiscores would be completely cheater-free though, but a lot of people can't be bothered to restart after spending 5K+ hours on their main account. Personally I would call easy the right word as repeating something for 5 minutes or repeating it for 1 hour is quite a difference.
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09-Dec-2016 13:42:47

Fire Hawk154

Fire Hawk154

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You've taken on an issue on that applies to the whole game: Melee has no upkeep cost besides degradation, Magic has an additional one with the consumption of runes, Ranged an additional one with ammo. They would need to work on this whole part before it is even getting close to be (costs) balanced. 2h and dual wield costs also aren't balanced in terms of dungeoneering (you'll pay 50 % more if you want to dw). I guess amplifing ammo could work, but I think an ammo generating item would be more enriching in terms of gameplay (think of the concept extended to further critical tiers). Maybe more opinions on that?

It's not an issue if a style has higher upkeep cost when it also comes with extra benefits. Ranged has lost all it's benefits since EoC. The difference in 2H and DW is quite ridiculous especially when it comes to runes. DW magic on Legacy is unaffordable while it's essentially free on EoC. I just don't think T55 ammo for Ranged should be expensive as it wouldn't be good for PvP (considering 1-item protection) and it makes Ranged even less viable.
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09-Dec-2016 13:46:53 - Last edited on 09-Dec-2016 13:47:06 by Fire Hawk154

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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Okay, I must admit I really didn't knew this. It doesn't matter though in terms of the hiscore former members being displayed as f2p. You may be able to say you won't acknowledge their position, but they still remain higher ranked (as f2p) than you'll ever be.

Besides I still lack the answer if you really think if there are too many (if any) players that keep a f2p status while flushing thousands (or just hundreds) of bucks into the TH. And even if there are a few (you can't tell me the game is infested with those), this really shouldn't be a reason to punish those by neglecting even more rewards for their ingame acquired keys or having their minigame rewards diminished into nothing

Taking on this minigame thing again (as I didn't answered it last time): For short termed interest a minigame needs to offer interesting rewards (items, spells/abilities,...). For longevity I think minigames need at least one of three things: Decent (b)xp rewards (preferably bxp to keep regular skilling relevant as well), Something for money making (be it regular trade goods or an unique tradeable reward) or something used to recharge the short termed acquired rewards. As Jagex isn't really maintaining existing minigames players should at least be able to use longevity rewards no matter of how their status is.

For repeating actions: It would just be you're somewhat shortening a tedious task, but still not being able to skip it entirely. It mostly consists of actions most players should have mastered after a few minutes (and then are repeating for a long time. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

10-Dec-2016 07:00:57

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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I am not really sure how to get fixed the issue with higher upkeep costs (it also would be way out of the scope of this thread), but I think ammo generating degrading items could really be something to start with. Of course then balancing DW costs against 2h ones and ammo consuming items (albeit I wouldn't suggest an elemental rune generating device or something like that) against those which don't.

For PKing players should know what risk they're taking and what they're getting for. And if what they're getting for is not worth the risk they take, they need being able to say they don't use this option. I'll keep it mind though, but the game really should have a solution available for this tier. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

10-Dec-2016 07:09:24 - Last edited on 10-Dec-2016 07:19:36 by Rikornak

Fire Hawk154

Fire Hawk154

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Okay, I must admit I really didn't knew this. It doesn't matter though in terms of the hiscore former members being displayed as f2p. You may be able to say you won't acknowledge their position, but they still remain higher ranked (as f2p) than you'll ever be.

They're not acknowledged by any pure F2P hiscore list, so they won't be higher ranked on any list that matters.

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Besides I still lack the answer if you really think if there are too many (if any) players that keep a f2p status while flushing thousands (or just hundreds) of bucks into the TH. And even if there are a few (you can't tell me the game is infested with those), this really shouldn't be a reason to punish those by neglecting even more rewards for their ingame acquired keys or having their minigame rewards diminished into nothing.
If it was possible more F2P players would flush money into TH. 1 hour on a regular job transferred to BXP is a lot more XP than 1 hour of actual training. There's hefty competition between pure F2P players, which shouldn't be decided by who can drop the most $ or GP in TH. I don't see it as a punishment for players to not be able to use BXP in F2P, considering most comes from TH rather than player effort. Minigame rewards aren't diminished as player's aren't forced to spend their tokes on BXP, that's their own choice.
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27-Dec-2016 12:40:13

Fire Hawk154

Fire Hawk154

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Taking on this minigame thing again (as I didn't answered it last time): For short termed interest a minigame needs to offer interesting rewards (items, spells/abilities,...). For longevity I think minigames need at least one of three things: Decent (b)xp rewards (preferably bxp to keep regular skilling relevant as well), Something for money making (be it regular trade goods or an unique tradeable reward) or something used to recharge the short termed acquired rewards. As Jagex isn't really maintaining existing minigames players should at least be able to use longevity rewards no matter of how their status is.

If there's one thing really bad for minigames it's pure XP rewards. The minigame rewards for longevity that really worked in the past were always items (RC gloves, altar tabs). They stimulate certain ways of training creating more alternatives. Just rewarding pure XP or BXP would just result in everyone farming the same method (like RC has been reduced to RuneSpanning). I'd definitely love to see Jagex making proper rewards for F2P minigames and not just the bad ones we saw in the last minigame "revival".


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For repeating actions: It would just be you're somewhat shortening a tedious task, but still not being able to skip it entirely. It mostly consists of actions most players should have mastered after a few minutes (and then are repeating for a long time.

It's easier to achieve a goal when it takes less time to achieve, even if the actions are unchanged.
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27-Dec-2016 12:55:31 - Last edited on 27-Dec-2016 12:55:44 by Fire Hawk154

Fire Hawk154

Fire Hawk154

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I am not really sure how to get fixed the issue with higher upkeep costs (it also would be way out of the scope of this thread), but I think ammo generating degrading items could really be something to start with. Of course then balancing DW costs against 2h ones and ammo consuming items (albeit I wouldn't suggest an elemental rune generating device or something like that) against those which don't.

For PKing players should know what risk they're taking and what they're getting for. And if what they're getting for is not worth the risk they take, they need being able to say they don't use this option. I'll keep it mind though, but the game really should have a solution available for this tier.

But wasn't the supposedly "great thing" about EoC that all styles were relevant and worth their risk? It would seem rather flawed if every style would be viable to PK with except Ranged due to the nature of it's ammunition. The main reason T55 ammo is important is PKing, as outside dangerous PvP DW Knifes are a far better option than the Gravite Shortbow anyway. The only combined option I could see as useful is if the ammo generating device would only require a 1-time payment to unlock it and a small GP fee to buy the item (or like Ava's device, a couple of arrows).
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27-Dec-2016 13:01:54

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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They're not acknowledged by any pure F2P hiscore list, so they won't be higher ranked on any list that matters.

Personal taste I guess - I think you're implying to inofficial highscores with this statement: I on the other hand do not think they're really a reliable source

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If there's one thing really bad for minigames it's pure XP rewards. The minigame rewards for longevity that really worked in the past were always items (RC gloves, altar tabs). They stimulate certain ways of training creating more alternatives. Just rewarding pure XP or BXP would just result in everyone farming the same method (like RC has been reduced to RuneSpanning). I'd definitely love to see Jagex making proper rewards for F2P minigames and not just the bad ones we saw in the last minigame "revival".

As I said it should be something that could be used for xp (maybe even in the process of a game like done in trouble brewing - it feels somewhat unsatisfying if you're actually doing something and see no direct progress. It even gets worse for games when you're absolutely getting nothing for failing (cw, fog). Sure winning should be rewarded, but at least 25 % (maybe more like 50 %) should be given for participation. Of course there still could be options better than others (there most likely will), but if will help players in favour of minigames if they're at least partially viable compared to regular skilling Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

28-Dec-2016 08:14:46 - Last edited on 28-Dec-2016 08:49:25 by Rikornak

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