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Alt1 should be banned! Y/N?

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Tenebri
Jan Member 2015

Tenebri

Posts: 39,167 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
^^ ill also touch on something you said in that quote above. about making most gp from skipping tickets. that is 100% false most gp comes from fortunates / dyes. skipping tickets are a very small % of income from clues.

do you not do clues? because that makes me think you dont. be odd if you dont and be this angry about something that helps complete them.
200m all RS3 on 7/3/19
1.2Billion overall Slayer xp / Ultimate slayer title

OSRS 2277/2277 Untrim slayer cape
Hail Satan, He loves for who you are.

22-Aug-2022 12:12:47 - Last edited on 22-Aug-2022 12:15:06 by Tenebri

SlR
Nov Member 2020

SlR

Posts: 4,378 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile


Deary me. 4 posts of waffle. Good thing I like waffles! :P "you should do this, you should do that". I'm not doing anything wrong. You seem to be looking for drama here and I'm not interested.

Back what up? this thread is 30-odd pages long, there're plenty of reasons why I (and many others) think Alt 1 is cheating. D'you not think they'd have their reasons? Read back

"nobody is saying you should do that. just you" - Eh? how else are people going to download Alt 1? It's not linked or mentioned internally (on RS). It's not even on the Wiki. https://runescape.wiki/w/Fansite

I'll continue to say it's cheating for as long as I believe it is. I don't see anything wrong with that. Players can check the support list (Quick find code: 254-255-304-65216439) of approved sites. If you don't see something supported then take caution / 'use at own risk'.



I thought it was clear (maybe to everyone else) that this is a discussion / opinion thread.
If using Alt 1 is cheating (to you) then it's cheating (to you). And if it's not then it's not. We wouldn't be having this discussion if the answer was a clear yes or no. Jagex have not approved or disapproved of it, thus we're having this conversation. Nit-picking just clogs up the conversation (with tasty waffles!), learn to read between the lines.

The 'you mad bro' comment speaks volumes. Yeah I don't do clues (0 solved), I don't think that matters. Just because I could benefit from it won't change my opinion of it being unfair play. If anything, my mind works the other way round. Why compete against people that use scripts in that part of the game, you know? Or did you mean 'if you can't beat them then join them' ? if so, nah, I'm good. I made that mistake many years ago. This is my solution (or attempt at one) making aware that this sort of thing is detrimental to the game.

Alt1: overlay/on-screen clickable indicators that eliminate cognition. Bob says:
A bank PIN will keep your items secure.
Always check the second trade screen.
Never trade in the Wilderness!
Keep your computer keylogger-free and virus scanned.
Never give your password out to anyone.

22-Aug-2022 13:53:34 - Last edited on 30-Mar-2023 10:32:25 by SlR

Quacc Attacc
Jun Member 2018

Quacc Attacc

Posts: 60 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
All of the people I know who've done thousands to tens of thousands of clues have never used alt1. To say it's detrimental to the economy is a huge overstatement when those people are trucking along making piles of money while I'm saving maybe two minutes on a trail by having alt1 fast-solve a slider so I have the finished image on my screen while I solve it. Downvote, not cheating, wiki has forms that solve towers for you and tell you where clues lead anyway, etc etc. It took you 15 months to correct Kerapac's grammar

17-Nov-2022 23:50:20

Draco Burnz
Dec Member 2011

Draco Burnz

Posts: 79,296 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Quacc Attacc said :
All of the people I know who've done thousands to tens of thousands of clues have never used alt1. To say it's detrimental to the economy is a huge overstatement when those people are trucking along making piles of money while I'm saving maybe two minutes on a trail by having alt1 fast-solve a slider so I have the finished image on my screen while I solve it. Downvote, not cheating, wiki has forms that solve towers for you and tell you where clues lead anyway, etc etc.

Exactly.

So its beyond obvious that Alt1 doesnt effect the economy at all whatsoever thus that point is beyond dead.

I mean once you get the hang of the puzzles, then you can stop using alt1 and still make as much, if not more, money.
Draco Burnz
Anime Fanatic
Defender of the logical

18-Nov-2022 01:38:28

Draco Burnz
Dec Member 2011

Draco Burnz

Posts: 79,296 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
SlR said :


If you dont do clues then clearly you have no room to speak about something you havent done.

This is like me trying to ask for changes to say GWD2 bosses even though i never done a single one.

So its not wise to ask for things you dont have any experience in.
Draco Burnz
Anime Fanatic
Defender of the logical

18-Nov-2022 01:41:43

Tenebri
Jan Member 2015

Tenebri

Posts: 39,167 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
SlR said :


Yeah I don't do clues (0 solved) and I don't think that matters.
First off on phone apologies for spelling and auto corrects on phone.

Im glad you said think. It shows you can be swayed. So thats a good right?

But yes of course it matters. It matters loads.

How can you say something is bad or good and anything inbetween when you have never used it or experienced it? Everything you know about alt1 is from what people have briefly told you. And it shows in all of these pages numerous people have told you you are wrong about alt1 in one way or another. And youve argued that. How can you argue that? When you dont know how it works youve never used it. People who have used it are telling you you are wrong about it. How can you cover ears and say they are wrong.

Would you have a discussion with someone who saying a film is bad when theyve never seen it. Or a book they have never read? Or a dish they have mever eaten?

Youd find out they havent and walk away shaking your head thinking the audacity to think they k ow about something they havent even tried or expereinced

Any valid discussion has now ended because of this one reason. (Okay 2 2nd being you arent listening to people who use it)

Im only writing this now because more posts have happened since your post. At first i realised there was no point on carrying on discussion. Thats why i didnt respond however long ago it was. But now its been bumped with posts ill post my response to the only thing that now matters. Because everything else means nowt as you are talking abojt something you cant know

Simple as that
200m all RS3 on 7/3/19
1.2Billion overall Slayer xp / Ultimate slayer title

OSRS 2277/2277 Untrim slayer cape
Hail Satan, He loves for who you are.

18-Nov-2022 09:24:16

SlR
Nov Member 2020

SlR

Posts: 4,378 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Tenibri

I'm open to changing my stance on this, for sure! I've used scripts in the past (very basic ones) and regrettably (10+ years ago) so I know what they look like. I'm sure they do all sorts now, but anyway, I know what cheating looks / smells like. Alt-1 reeks of it. It's just 'allowed', that's all. There's a reason why a top search query for it is 'is alt1 cheating?'

Allowing script-use is a slippery slope imo, there will be folk that end up downloading other / worse programs because of it. It might be safe now, but why risk it? why risk your account? This happens with other 'established' scripts, why is Alt-1 an exception? "why should you care" because these hacked accounts become RWT gold mules, start spamming phishing websites, etc. They're a menace. "just mute them" that's like de-heading a weed, that's not efficient. "but they'll always exist" that shouldn't stop us trying to reduce them. Anyway, I'm rambling

Draco

Well, I haven't jumped into a volcano (yet) but I know not to do that. Why should it matter whether I have (or haven't) personally used Alt-1, or done a clue-scroll myself? I've seen others do them (with and without the script) and Alt-1 provides a significant advantage!

I know TT's aren't a skill, but, it's kinda like "oh he's only botting one skill, let him off" etc. Whether it's a small part of the game or not, no exceptions. And regardless of whether I've done clues (post-rework) there are quests that include the same mechanics, so I've got a good idea of what they entail, and the time it takes to do them. Reward-wise, how can you say it doesn't affect the economy? when puzzle-skip tickets are directly affected (not a big deal, in the grand scheme of things) but it does have an impact on vanilla. I wonder how many of those posts you see on reddit of players 'unboxing 30,000 clue rewards' did those unassisted. In those 'rare' cases, alt-1 really does make people A LOT of money. Bob says:
A bank PIN will keep your items secure.
Always check the second trade screen.
Never trade in the Wilderness!
Keep your computer keylogger-free and virus scanned.
Never give your password out to anyone.

18-Nov-2022 13:20:20 - Last edited on 30-Mar-2023 10:12:16 by SlR

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I always kinda had the feeling, that you're talking about something you're not fully understanding (actually less from the clue side of things, but more you're talking about alt-1 as being real time capable - which it is not), but I hadn't expected, that you have literally zero personal experience regarding this content and this functionality and solely doing this on somebody else's behalf.

Of course it's an issue when you try to talk about something you are not using it at all at all, as well as being affected. That doesn't imply you should be forbidden to talk about it, but it extremely diminishes your credibility, since how could you even give elaborate feedback on something you haven't even experienced so far .

You can turn it around as much as you like - RS3 has no policy whatsoever when it comes to this thing . That's a big difference to OS, in which more powerful functionality for clue assistance was made part of their official steam client - functionality, that actually stemmed from a 3rd party client. But as it stands it is not cheating . You even got that in your OP - you are free to use it on your own risk. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

18-Nov-2022 18:55:43 - Last edited on 18-Nov-2022 19:09:31 by Rikornak

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
And not even that. I said in one of my first posts Jagex has adjusted parts of treasure trails due to players using this tool. Everybody (yeah sure - you not, since you're not doing trails) lost out on that update - no matter whether you used alt-1 or not - but even moreso those who did not used it after that point. Those changes (like big celtic knots, like sliders that take 4 to 6 times longer on an optimal solution (and even longer since you're not able to perform that without a third party tool), like more numerous hard clues that end in one of those more awful slider puzzles) were their acknowledgment, that this tool exists and that players are using it.

I am genuinely interested how many players were driven to that tool in the first place, after trails became so much more awful due to it existing.

As I said - I would prefer if Jagex was to provide an API, for which players can develop their own plugins to improve their game play experience. So they have more control about, what is fine and what not. I mean OS basically just said what they deem acceptable (spoiler: way more than alt-1 could offer), but they basically still require the good will of those client developers. But yeah - using any other 3rd party client than those three approved ones could result in a ban. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

18-Nov-2022 18:57:19 - Last edited on 18-Nov-2022 18:58:57 by Rikornak

SlR
Nov Member 2020

SlR

Posts: 4,378 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I understand the part(s) of it that I am against, I think that's enough to start the conversation?

What about others who feel similarly that have experience with clues? PS: I did do clues, but that was before they changed them. I haven't done any since then after finding out everyone uses a third-party script to complete them. Doesn't feel like a level playing field and I have an issue with that. Though I am collecting them to complete one day, lol.

It's just a shame really, players are allowed to bypass so much time (and not use their brain) by utilising scripts, minimise their contribution etc. The exact same technology (clickable overlay indicators) will bleed over into other things. Because we'll allow it to, because alt-1 / overlay assistance will become 'the norm'. Desensitisation and all that. I don't need to have done any clues to know it's wrong (imo), we can vicariously deduce things. It just doesn't make me hopeful for the future of RS if they keep cheapening it for the lazy or greedy folk out there. Play the game as it's intended. There's no competitive element without a level playing field.

Anyhoo, I 'expect' 3rd party software in OSRS, that game is a bit of a wild-west. I expect(ed) a bit more 'integrity' from RS3. It's easy enough as-is. I am realising that this stance is fighting a losing battle though, right or wrong. Side-note: the 'real time' thing, I stand somewhat corrected on that. It takes a screen grab when you tell it to, so it's not 'constantly' recording your screen, that we know of. I realised this when watching a streamer on Twitch mess up their puzzle, they had to click the script again to have it recalculate the solution. Still, it shouldn't be that easy. Alt 1 provides 'competitive advantage' via 'unrecognised' and 'unapproved' third-party software / program / script. If they're unrecognised and unapproved, why risk your account with them? they could sell the company or roll out a dodgy update... Bob says:
A bank PIN will keep your items secure.
Always check the second trade screen.
Never trade in the Wilderness!
Keep your computer keylogger-free and virus scanned.
Never give your password out to anyone.

18-Nov-2022 20:40:36 - Last edited on 30-Mar-2023 10:42:22 by SlR

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