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Daibhi

Daibhi

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Aqua Star said :
B I L L Y said :



There's nothing positive to say about any of that. I'd sack them.

Mhm. Initially I only read the google document which, at first, looked promising - then I stumbled across this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/b0cfbt/tldw_425_comp_cape_rework_dev_qa/

After reading the paragraphs regarding the comp rework, to me this means nothing is going to change. The system will be exactly how it is now, just reworded differently and made overly complicated.

I'll be honest after reading that it's causing me to contemplate putting my money where my mouth is and truely quitting for good this time (I "quit" for 5 years due to EOC when it was released) after playing since RSC was the only version of this game by cancelling my subscription, as it's almost completely zapped my motivation to continue playing due to running out of goals.

Over reacting? Possibly. Unless Jagex goes into greater detail explaining how this tiered system works, I may pull the trigger on that idea. PVM deserves recognition but this game has turned from being story heavy to unbelievably PVM heavy, all roads lead to PVM with Runescape now and that's an issue. PVM mechanics are seeping into quests as well which is directly affecting an alternative choice from comp which is QP and MQC by adding the exact same barrier.

It'll get to a point where the difficulty is so insane PVM wise comp will be owned by a true minority with those who are opposed to opposition on that aspect now may very possibly not be able to get it in the future at some point because with each addition to reaper the difficulty will also have to greatly increase from the previous addition.

Jagex you need to explain how this system is going to work in more detail because currently it honestly looks no different whatsoever to how it already works minus another cape being added after trimmed.

23-Mar-2019 14:40:06

Uncl
Mar Member 2013

Uncl

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Rikornak said :
...
Yes I've read the dev blog a few times, seen video a few times, read various threads & posts around the web, and I took a week to contemplate before I joined the discussion.

Look into Llama Ore. Less than 1 year, Ironman.

Capes are useful on the way to 99 in a single skill: Obby, that one which lightens you, Jarod's, Ardy 1-4. After getting 99 in a set of skills you can get an expert cape ( could use a buff ) - which you can add two capes too. Then you get to max, and you add in your Inv, Range, and 1 other cape to your max cape.

I think we agree on the qp + mqc. Which is Huge. I haven't really seen input from the skillers, lore, and achievement players - they are good with doing work. Btw, I'm still hunting for what happened to Charos ( did they die? are they a he/she? what's locked behind the necklace? ), if you have any tips. So it's only the pvmers who are complaining.

We just need 1 combat cape between max & comp to satisfy them. As time move forward, the legacy reqs become easier. There are guides, better items, new perks, so the legacy areas are not really a hindrance; again Llama Ore. I'm no longer fighting kbd in green d'hide with a msb, or full rune, perhaps with a whip.

What I could see, in addition to the 1 new cape, is a change in stats for the comp, qp, mcq, and comp(t). What could work is requiring a certain RuneScore to keep comp/comp(t). That could satisfy legacy issues - such as 100 ( HM? ) Giant Moles. Also, with the RuneScore, it would take care of the grey areas of what's comp, comp(t), and just an achievement.

When I get people to start playing, and they ask, "what do I do when you're not on?", I always show them the achievements and runescape.wiki.

Reaper became its own beast when slayer went to 120 & t90s started coming out. It was to give a different way of doing slayer.

Anyway, what perks does the comp cape have that pvmers would also want? My Threads:
Starting Player Owned Ports-v2

23-Mar-2019 15:16:43

Daibhi

Daibhi

Posts: 1,176 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Uncl said :

We just need 1 combat cape between max & comp to satisfy them. As time move forward, the legacy reqs become easier. There are guides, better items, new perks, so the legacy areas are not really a hindrance; again Llama Ore. I'm no longer fighting kbd in green d'hide with a msb, or full rune, perhaps with a whip.

What I could see, in addition to the 1 new cape, is a change in stats for the comp, qp, mcq, and comp(t).
What could work is requiring a certain RuneScore to keep comp/comp(t)
.That could satisfy legacy issues - such as 100 ( HM? ) Giant Moles. Also, with the RuneScore, it would take care of the grey areas of what's comp, comp(t), and just an achievement.


If the system worked like how you mentioned it would, without a doubt, satisfy most if not all (apart from elitists) if access to the cape(s) was based on maintaining a certain number of runescore rather than set in stone and specific across the board requirements.

The more prestigious the cape, the more runescore that's required to help compensate/replace the difficulty level that currently exists due to reaper and other reqs. people may struggle with - ultimately Jagex would need to realistically set the bars in regards to how much runescore would be required for such and such, along with which achievements etc. reward in regards to runescore (IE. the more difficult =high runescore). More difficult reqs. means it would be achieved faster than easier reqs.

The benefit of it working that way is people have the ability and flexibility to pick and choose what reqs. they want to/can do in order to obtain the respective cape(s) and everyone will be required to meet to relevant runescore number regardless despite being able to go about it uniquely to others.

Question is though.. would the runescore requirement be static or dynamically increase per addition of new content? I suppose that's one issue with going about it that way.

23-Mar-2019 15:33:28

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Uncl said :
...

That really sounds reasonable. I must admit I was for myself also a fan once of a runescore based system (fixed percentage of the maximum) earlier, but I always had a bit of that feeling that what Jagex misses out on adding requirements would be pushed toward the player then. Also a big problem, which I pointed out when they asked for new achievements was that many achievements are significantly over- (mostly combat - take alone a look at leaving the wolves at helwyr) or underrated (very often minigames or misc stuffs). So it's a bit of a foul deal, which would have worked as an easy fix in contrary to a full rework.

I guess the stuff fighters would want from comp are those three trait slots, its superior combat stats and maybe utility effects like ava and spirit cape. Stuff like unifying other perks certainly also wouldn't be a disadvantage.

As for the specialized groups: I agree questers are really in a good spot (basically MQC just needs to be split into two tiers with one focusing on advanced quest stuff (t2 - all post quest stuffs + miniquests) and other lore heavy content (t3 - MQC), which both are quite some step up from the previous tier and allow to show off their lore progress (somebody with the bare minimum for a quest cape will have to skill a lot more to claim and use all post quest stuffs for instance, likewise a t2 quester will have to collect a lot of books to show mastery then).

I really can only guess how skillers are treated post tier 1 - tier 2 might be all 120s, tier 3 might be having master of all unlocked. Logically thought tier 1 skilling might include 120 in invention, dungeoneering and slayer - which for itself would distinct it from the max cape sufficiently.

As for combat - it actually is a progress path widely independent from skilling that way. A player who has achieved t3 combat will likely at least be close to maxing - but doesn't necessarily need to be. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

23-Mar-2019 16:36:19 - Last edited on 23-Mar-2019 16:54:21 by Rikornak

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Your comparison might work for low levelled bosses, since players had a lot of free room to level up further, as well as jagex had a lot of free room to include new equipment. That isn't really the case anymore today, most players are maxed when engaging with new content and this new content mostly awards new stuff, which isn't giving vertical power progression - it's mostly step up equipment (e.g. GWD2, ED1) or an alternative to existing stuff (e.g. Solak, ED3). Sure - players are getting more adept at existing bosses over time, but this is a learning process.

That Jagex isn't interested too much in driving the power curve further is best seen with (trimmed) masterwork - in comparison to its ranged/magic counterparts it's basically just more economical to maintain (both variants) and regarding the set bonus (just trimmed) - it is a cool utility effect (which I actually prefer over something like void, since that makes it easier for players to eventually part of the stuff in favour of new equipment), but it doesn't increase your offensive potential beyond the pure stats.

That doesn't imply we're not getting stronger at all - they've released skill codices and hydrix ornament kits the last years - but it is so much slower than earlier: T90 was the highest tier for a bit over 3 years, likewise t92 is it for yet another 3 years now. Our best in slot cape is 7 years old now likewise (okay it's partially the fault of comp they haven't released anything, but cosmetics in all that time). Jewellery 4 years (yes - I know we got a miniscule increase with those ornament kits and ring imbues). Don't get me wrong in here - I prefer this since it makes equipment more relevant - there are other games that basically have a full reset every few months, when the new stuff invalidates everything that was there up to this point. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

23-Mar-2019 16:42:48 - Last edited on 23-Mar-2019 17:36:25 by Rikornak

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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Having the reaper split in two parts - one that shows a specific degree of dedication and skill (what ever that might be, as I said a reasonable cut could be GWD2 for that aspect, but it could also work including araxxor and telos) - and one that requires players to go beyond them would certainly also reduce the hate a lot of players have towards new bosses: Be it solak, be it raids, be it whatever they also had released or might release in the future. Ideally it might even raise their curiosity in doing it, since they do no longer need to feel anxious on getting the relevant effects back ASAP. Also imagine even harder bosses that could directly be introduced to t3 in the future.

Leaves out explorers, minigamers and misc. I guess it would be the best for those to wait someone at Jagex telling us what they think about what might be included on what cape. As a fun fact - the MQC was shaped in a similiar process. The developer posted a list of guidelines he uses for the design as well as stuff he would like to include on the cape - and the community shared their thoughts - a lot of stuff was added because of this and some unfitting requirements were cut (livid farm was originally part of the MQC despite having no relevance at all, bar randomly lying in a quest locked area - it was killed off quickly because of this) or at least reduced (i.e. you just need to kill 30 chompies instead of all 4k - so you would unlock the first hat as a post quest reward and not all of them)

Now to charos: Charos is a guy and you've basically discovered everything what is discoverable now, when his necklace got its gem re-inserted. If you haven't done that, I wouldn't want to spoil you now, just let you know there might be a piece of information out there you haven't seen yet. But generally - the story isn't concluded yet. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

23-Mar-2019 16:55:37 - Last edited on 23-Mar-2019 18:12:29 by Rikornak

D 3 X
Jan Member 2023

D 3 X

Posts: 11 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Make skilling and pvm capes between max and comp capes.

Pvm and skilling has 3 tier system
Each cape has its own stats, perks or maybe teleports.
1st tier reqs are 99 in cb skills + pvm challenges (pvm cape), 99 in all skills (skilling cape)
Difficulty of challenges increases with each tier
To comp you need partly completed T3 PVM cape achievemnts (to avoid group bossing I guess... because i've noticed a lot of people are complaining about it.), so comp would be soloable.
Revitalize castle wars to fit rewards of todays content (items that would be useful in pvm and skilling) or remove it from reqs.

Regarding lore cape (take with grain of salt)
T1 lore would be QP cape
T2 lore would be MQP cape
T3 lore would be MQP trimmed ??
My opinion is just to leave the system as it is today in rs3 regarding quests.

C'est la vie lads.

23-Mar-2019 18:09:24

Uncl
Mar Member 2013

Uncl

Posts: 13,097 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Rikornak said :
...
RuneScape should go to 120 ( 99 + 99 + 99 + 99 ) in all skills, but that's outside of this discussion on capes. However, it would allow newer content, instead of having highly specialized items for certain situations. And yeah, I've been a part of a few threads in my time here.

Anyway, until we actually get more specifics from Jagex, we're basically at an impasse. I think we've reached points of compromise, and now we need to wait to see what they would do, and how they would do it.

The only concrete thing we know is, there is a +5 to base player stats for 1 passive; we don't even know what, or how many, passives will exist. We don't know the req's for the tiers, what goes with what, and is there overlap? Would existing comp/comp(t)s get the t1-t3s? What's the give and take of the new system? You get this, but lose this, and you also have this other stuff to do, but you can't do that... type thing

From what we know, I'm not sure we can continue to discuss or think about options, potentials, and possibilities....

Would only explorers get teles? What do Lore hounds get? How are those which achieved comp/comp(t)/mqc/qp treated? My Threads:
Starting Player Owned Ports-v2

23-Mar-2019 19:39:35 - Last edited on 23-Mar-2019 19:42:32 by Uncl

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