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Yusou Bhoroi

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[Break]

While the dedicated discussion thread for this issue, is no longer on the forums (was still in the Ninja section, in Autumn/Winter '14, and another was in the now removed New Game Content Suggestions section), I'll give a couple of threads where it's discussed, and then give an outline, here, of the merits of different options.

This thread , starting here , but continuing through the thread (mostly in pages 2-10).
This thread , throughout, but most discussion was in it's sister thread in the NGC-S section.

Overall, it's generally concluded that the system that balances simplicity with effectiveness most efficiently, is one that awards a set number of tokens per orb scored by the team as a whole, during the entire round - with this being the sole factor determining the number of tokens.
(However, systems that award more tokens per orb, after certain thresholds, are better, even if they require a little more work).

With a fixed number per orb, 4 seems to be the fairest number, if wishing to keep average times as similar to the current average as possible, for actual played games, at any level.
(With the threshold system, 1-6 over a range of 300, can achieve fairer effects, and would add more incentive to team play).

The working out for this, requires a breakdown of each alternative, which while useful if wishing to check other options, is just there for extra reading, so won't be contained in this post.

09-Jan-2017 00:10:16 - Last edited on 09-Jan-2017 01:50:16 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

For overall systems, it's best to assess how they perform in comparison the the current system, in a few key areas.

Each area will be gone into, with scores given for how well they do/how much they do to encourage enjoyment of the content, ranging from

0

-

10

, with anything below a

5

being a negative overall effect.

It's important to remember that while the system is inextricably impact-full upon the game, and is able to nearly single-handedly ruin a game, it isn't the essence of the gameplay itself, once the game is played disregarding it, and a game can be incredibly fun, and enjoyable, complex and challenging, relaxing and productive, yet people can be entirely prevented from finding this out, due to the reward-allocation system.

Over time, if a system produces negative experiences, for the majority of users, it can cause the death of a Minigame.

While no game will be everyone's dream, nor indeed liked by everybody, if the system prevents the very people who would potentially like it, from liking it, then those who would have been fans, had they been able to play it with a different system, will be amongst those who dislike the content.

Starting with the current system:

09-Jan-2017 02:06:09 - Last edited on 09-Jan-2017 04:05:44 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Does the System Require Participation in the Content, in Order to Gain While There?

No:
Currently people can AFK after one person in their team scores one orb, and they will still recieve maximum tokens for that round, if the other team does nothing. This is the method used by the majority of users, including:

• Boosters - who use alts to AFK on one team, while one person on the other team scores one orb, each altar, and the rest AFK. This gains more tokens than ANY form of legitimate play.

• 5050 - who split into 2 teams, with each team taking turns to have one person score one orb, and everyone else AFKing. This earns a higher average number of tokens, over time, than any form of competitive play.

• Random AFKers - who know they will get the same, or greater reward for AFKing, than they would for playing, and thus AFK.

This always gains at least the minimal amount of tokens, but also ruins the game for all other players present (on both teams), by preventing play (by making orbs immovable), and thus leads to other players to give up trying to play (most often before they've even had a chance to experience playing, at all.. but can even gradually make long-term content-lovers give up, after persistent exposure to inability to play), resulting in them becoming AFKers, too, who in turn impact on even more games.

Being subjected to this, is one of the main 3 reasons that people turn to AFKing, whether that be 5050, or Boosting. The others are The System Rewarding it Above Play and Newcomer Persecution (with word of mouth/guide information of both, causing many who've never even been in a game, to immediately seek out AFK-boosting, before trying the content - often with immovable obstinacy over the issue of trying the content any other way).

• Bots - While having much the same effect as random AFKers, they can do so in larger numbers, and are can thrive with this ability to gain without playing.

Score:

2

(Requires 2 clicks per 5mins)

09-Jan-2017 02:34:32 - Last edited on 09-Jan-2017 02:48:57 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Does the System Encourage Teamwork?

Not really:
It does little to encourage people to work together, unless you count the incentive to create groups to manipulate the system for gain, without playing..

..which is actually a negative, if you consider such groups have no need to interact while in-game, no reason to use the content while there, and can impact negatively on people trying to play (both in terms of spoiling/preventing play directly, and in terms of leeching legitimate players away from playing + preventing newcomers from ever coming into contact with playing the game).

The effect of a content's system should really promote participation in it, not promote the prevention of it, while exploiting it.

It doesn't help that this system's only way of promoting playing-teamwork, is to give 92.6% of the reward to the team that scores 1 (note: just 1) more orb that the other team, with the other team getting pittance, no matter how well they played as a team, and no matter how well they performed.

Therefore it's in the best interest of people who have even the slightest degree of skill greater than the absolute newcomer, to band together and use that iota of skill to prevent newcomers from wining, further pushing them into AFKing or having negative experiences of the content.

What's more, the majority of the effort required, doesn't involve any skill in the game, at all.. it simply requires herding new players into one team, by hogging spots on the other team.

So the system manages to encourage non-play and the bullying of newcomers, as the only efficient forms of Teamwork. There's no credible incentive for using teamwork with the aim to perform well in the game, only to do enough to go one better than another team, and make sure that team is one that will not be able to beat you, even if you AFK.

Score:

2

The only Teamwork promoted is negative, and such that ensures the long-term death of the Minigame as played content.

09-Jan-2017 03:24:37

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Is the System Conducive to a Positive Experience for Newcomers?

No:
With the system promoting widescale prevention of play, persecution of newcomers if play does happen to occur, and a profitable way to exploit the game without playing, the majority of newcomers never get to experience actual play.

Even if you were to wind back time, to a point when the system hadn't been in place for so long, that it (along with other things - some of which were, in themselves, a result of the situation caused by the system) had caused such decreased usage of the content, that it is nigh-impossible to find a game at all../if you feed a large amount of people into such a system:

The first obstacle, created by the system, that a newcomer must overcome, is the peer pressure to avoid, or AFK the content (from all sources: Players, Guides - including Wikis, JAGEX Streams/Comments, Content Treatment - lack of bug fixes, long periods without update, unrelated updates that strip the content of rewards, or uses from individual rewards, negative-AFK-promoting updates).
Going to AFK right from the get go, skimmed roughly 20% of players - it's impossible to gauge how many were put off from trying the content.. now it's practically 99%.

The second, is getting into a game where there are no AFKers, or bots to spoil the experience, or entirely prevent play.
This has varied, with the lowest being about 15%, in the very first days of Gop; being ~40% for the height of player activity, and being 100% at the peak of bot saturation (with all Worlds being filled with bots - by filled, I mean >10 bots attempting to join teams every minute, preventing anyone from joining a team unless they were fast).

The third is getting a game which hasn't been manipulated into being one-sided, by those who know even the tiniest thing about how Gop works.
This takes out nearly all the remaining players.. with most of the handful left being put off by the bad attitudes created by such a tense system.

09-Jan-2017 03:48:41 - Last edited on 09-Jan-2017 04:14:43 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Most are prevented from attempting the content, by the negative repercussions of the system, and of those who do, the majority get put off entirely by the negatives it creates within the content itself.

Those who don't, and struggle through a bit, are almost all persuaded to go and join AFK groups, boost by using alts, or just AFK in others' games, ruining and preventing gameplay & enjoyment for them.

Nowadays, it's rare for people to bother trying the content, even harder for them to find where it's played, and due to the Spotlight, it's almost guaranteed that they'll end up in an organised AFK game, from the get-go.

Score:

1

It's a miracle anyone new to the game was ever able to gain a positive experience out of trying it. The system is entirely responsible for this, either directly, or through it's knock-on effects.

09-Jan-2017 03:57:16 - Last edited on 09-Jan-2017 03:58:10 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Does the system encourage competition?

To an extent.. but a better question would be "Does the system encourage healthy competition?".. to which the answer would be a resounding: No.

As covered in previous areas, the only rewards from actually playing, come from being able to score just one orb more than the opposing team.

What compounds this, is the fact that if a score is tied for an altar both teams lose out .
-this was intended to be a quick-fix for the previous case, where both teams got half-win points, which was being exploited (albeit only for a few hours, on release), but actually had the effect of completely ensuring mismatched games, to avoid overall loss, and did nothing to discourage AFK games which prevent ties.
(Indeed, the prevelance of forced-losing on newcomers, greatly increased AFK's allure - not that it needs any increase, to become dominant, as we can see with other Minigames).

All this leads to people favouring, and being driven towards ensuring one-sided matches, at any cost, not competing with close-matched opponents. It encourages those who don't yet know the game, to compete in an unhealthy way, win all, or lose all, in a system where winning is prevented, and improving isn't rewarded even when it's permitted.. indeed, new players get slammed down, regardless of any improvements they make - so why bother.

(I've personally never been in such a situation, having been lucky enough to have come to the content as part of a pre-established group, that was all about playing together, and didn't care about the in-game rewards, so were immune to the effects of the system. However, I am well aware of what happens to newcomers, how it affects competition, and how it makes them feel, having kept a close eye on it, throughout Gop's history, and studied the system carefully, to trace the causes - not only alone, but with others who have shared their own experiences).

09-Jan-2017 05:01:12

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Even those who have managed to overcome all odds, and manage to love the game, have the same things causing some similar problems, at mid and high-level competition:

Close competition is discouraged by draws leading to everyone losing out.. yet an uneven match leads to one team losing out entirely.. there's always someone better than you, but you don't get rewarded for challenging yourself, and bullies get rewarded for picking on people many levels below them, in terms of skill.

This constant reward and positive reinforcement for such behaviour, can even make bullies out of people who weren't otherwise so, but just happen to use the content a lot (especially if they are, or ever have been for a time, using it for material gain).

The drive for total win, causes problems with those who taste it once, or become aware of it, but can't have it, leading to them criticising and having negative attitudes towards anyone they deem less skilled than them (even when that often includes those much more skilled than them). Overall, it creates a bad environment, whenever play actually happens, and even more so if there is competition.

This is not a problem endemic to competiton, and does not need to occur in a competitive environment, nor does it add to the enjoyment of one, for the majority of people (even competitive people).

Score:

3

As with any system of total, or near total win or loss, this is a problem with this system. The competition is not fair, it is not rewarded, and all the possible negative aspects of competition seem to be caused, without any of the positive ones.

09-Jan-2017 05:18:37

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Does it Encourage and Reward Skill in, and Exploration of the Content?

In a small way, it can, but that is more by fluke, than design; the majority of the impact it has, has the opposite effect:

• It prevents most players from playing at all.
• It penalises those who do try playing.
• Inexperienced people get next to no reward, and that tends not to increase as they improve, because they are still being targeted by people given the incentive to make them lose; they also find it difficult to experience games without disruption from AFKers, which only exist because the system encourages and rewards them.
• The majority of ways to gain from the content (indeed, practically the only ways.. and certainly the only efficient ways), do not involve skill in participating in the content, merely in either manipulating the system for AFK gain, or manipulating new people into losing.

Given that the system makes it very unlikely anyone would try exploring the content, or gaining skill, and that if someone goes against that, and does try, they will be penalised, prevented, and bullied.. it completely fails on encouraging exploration.

As for rewarding skill - the system only rewards those who play against people who are no match for them, and therefore it gives the most reward to those who pick on people who are the furthest below them in skill.

The chances they will beat you are reduced to 0 (if you exclude computer freezes and dc's), and winning against them takes the least effort, so has the lowest effort:gain ratio.

It does not matter how little skill you have, as long as you pick on someone who is less skilled than you, you will gain the full reward, and they will gain nothing. Thus people are given the max reward, when they discover a way to bully newcomers, with no incentive to get better.

09-Jan-2017 05:20:08 - Last edited on 09-Jan-2017 21:18:27 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

The small positive is that a skilled player, who plays against random opponents (which is an extremely rare occurrence, due to the way the system discourages competition, or challenge), will, on average, gain more than a less skilled person who does the same. However, as they both will earn less than AFKers, and people who target newcomers, this incentive does not work, indeed it's a disincentive.

Score:

3

The only real incentive, is to manipulate the system, or bully; any incentive there is to explore, or improve, is far outweighed by these other things (even before you factor in their advantage due to taking less effort).

09-Jan-2017 21:24:28

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