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Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It's on the page of notes about what you're aware of/have been informed about, I believe that one was added by *'corzhai, or one of his brothers, given the date, and it being from his cert.

08-Feb-2016 13:28:15 - Last edited on 08-Feb-2016 13:31:20 by Yusou Bhoroi

Timome

Timome

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Thanks.

Ah, and I should mention, because I see that my meaning could be misunderstood, that I don't quote Musashi because I approve of cutting people, but rather because it's a nycce reminder that I need to remember the purpose of my activities while doing them. If one forgets the purpose (i.e. ''cutting the enemy'') of one's activity, one ends up optimising one's actions based on what seems like appropriate actions, instead of optimising one's actions based on the purpose of the activity. For example, a teacher that forgets that the purpose of what they're doing is to teach children will end up doing teacher-like actions instead of the actions that are best at teaching children.

If my purpose is to help as many as possible as much as possible, then I need to constantly remind myself of this, otherwise my seemingly altruistic actions will be optimised for how much warm glow they give me, or they will be optimised for receiving praise from others, or they will be optimised for fitting into a 'heroic-Timo' narrative. It's too easy to forget one's purpose and slide back into fulfilling some predetermined role .

All causal influences that determine my actions that doesn't go through my values are my enemy. Out of all my actions, I only condone the few that are at least partially determined by my core values. I am an optimisation process with a thousand optimisation criteria, but most of those optimisation criteria are not what I call my core values.
Reason, compassion and GOP.

GOP FC | GOP Hiscores | GOP Intro

09-Feb-2016 16:24:05

Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It can also be more negatively impacting on results than most people aiming for efficiency realise, to 'optimise' work-method, as this is easier to detect, and far more off-putting (causing of a negative reaction) than they notice (or would, in their head, care to admit).

It's also a problem when people who have little experience in interacting, emmulate this, and just do the same mechanical actions, which without a connection, cause aversion in the majority - even if the short-term effect seems positive, and spreading, it can lead to long term (and more difficult to overcome) opposition.


There is also the factor of where a person who is you will be best fitting in - there may be some courses of action which are 'best for your cause', and would be the most efficient if you were someone else, but which (due to both personality & representation, and the efficiency of still carrying enough 'warm feels' to aid your carrying on) are actually not-so, for the person you are, and a different (seemingly less efficient) role, may be one best suited to you.

Encouraging someone more suited to the optimal role, to take that role, is often better. Especially if you don't convey your complete intentions, as well as they may do.


You can see part of this in action, when you look at the amount of hate created in the cause of misunderstanding of 'tolerance', in all places it is advocated (some more than others, and likely the opposite of what you can make yourself see).




Try to apply answers as a definition of cake. Reverse method, reflected point.

10-Feb-2016 15:10:06 - Last edited on 10-Feb-2016 17:58:22 by Yusou Bhoroi

Timome

Timome

Posts: 1,045 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Persons are like coins: they have two sides. One side that sees and another side that is seen . Each may only know themselves as the side that sees, but are known by others as the side that is seen. Every person is alone the side that sees and can only connect with that which is seen.
Reason, compassion and GOP.

GOP FC | GOP Hiscores | GOP Intro

02-Mar-2016 20:32:13 - Last edited on 02-Mar-2016 20:32:38 by Timome

Timome

Timome

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A dilemma:

But first, preliminary about wanting: It's possible to want to want something without wanting it; e.g. I want to want to work productively 16 hours a day, but my body doesn't want to. It's also possible to want something while wanting to not want it; e.g. I want to go explore Gielinor and even play GOP, but I don't want to want to do this because it will break my productive habits. It's also possible to want to want something at the same time as one wants it; e.g. I want to save the world, and I also want this, so it affects my day-to-day actions. These last wants are powerful and stable wants. I want a reality with less torture, and I also want to want it; if I didn't want it, I would be frustrated with myself and I would try to change myself.

So, coming near the point, is discipline good?

Often I want to want to work while I don't want to work. Discipline is where I can push through my desire not to work, and work anyway. But this generates an ugh-feeling, I feel bad for doing things I don't want to do. Thus, every time I do this, the neural activation pattern that causes me to do this is punished with a bad feeling, and so the pattern is less likely to activate the next time (or at least that may be what the theory says, given my very limited understanding). So every time I act on discipline and get punished for it, that behaviour should recede and become harder and harder. (Unless there is, as there very well may be, some other mechanism that strengthens discipline, or makes discipline easier, every time discipline is activated.)

The dilemma: should always try to push myself, activating discipline to do things I don't want to do, or should I find a sneakier and slower way to change what I want to do in the first place, so that I don't have to act on discipline? Whatever my strategy, it must be stable over my lifetime, otherwise I will just degenerate into unproductiveness over time.
Reason, compassion and GOP.

GOP FC | GOP Hiscores | GOP Intro

03-Mar-2016 12:45:23 - Last edited on 03-Mar-2016 12:47:30 by Timome

Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
There's also to consider how effectively you work when forcing yourself to do something you don't want to do.

If that can be detrimental, or can prevent insights and further progression (even when not effecting the standard effectiveness), then it may be better to take another approach.



Timome said :
Thanks.

Ah, and I should mention, because I see that my meaning could be misunderstood, that I don't quote Musashi because I approve of cutting people, but rather because it's a nycce reminder that I need to remember the purpose of my activities while doing them. If one forgets the purpose (i.e. ''cutting the enemy'') of one's activity, one ends up optimising one's actions based on what seems like appropriate actions, instead of optimising one's actions based on the purpose of the activity. For example, a teacher that forgets that the purpose of what they're doing is to teach children will end up doing teacher-like actions instead of the actions that are best at teaching children.

-wonders whether you've found the point of my earlier posts, yet-
(the clue is in that I was already aware of the secondary meaning, and your usage of, the quote).

03-Mar-2016 20:50:59 - Last edited on 03-Mar-2016 20:55:28 by Yusou Bhoroi

Timome

Timome

Posts: 1,045 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Yusou Bhoroi said :

-wonders whether you've found the point of my earlier posts, yet-
(the clue is in that I was already aware of the secondary meaning, and your usage of, the quote).

You mean the hard-to-translate sayings I asked for?

I should first mention that I added this disclaimer to avoid confusing other readers. I didn't fear that you misunderstood what I meant.


Yusou Bhoroi said :

There can be no winners, once a fight begins.
(...)

There is no blood inside those who wait.
(...)

War is a process of changing ideas through teaching, and they should be more when they end, than they were at the start.
(...)

Or the danger and complexities of seeking to optimise work-method?

The things I'm certain I did not understand were these:

1) '' Try to apply answers as a definition of cake. Reverse method, reflected point. ''

2) '' There is no blood inside those who wait. ''
Reason, compassion and GOP.

GOP FC | GOP Hiscores | GOP Intro

29-Mar-2016 17:02:41

Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Reprofiling, so I can search for posts.


Oh, and I had not seen your reply, last time I looked! I'll reply anon (though will check if I ended up replying to that in E-mail form, first).





Cake is not just a sum of constituents, nor even that + a process. A specific order can be implied, but is not the point either. Neither is the past, present, or future state, definition of the Cake. Though the individual parts, may, by distinct processes, be reformed exactly into the places and items they were before they were Cake - even if such is beyond achievement or understanding, that is irrelevant; as is the state, time, and method of doing so. Dividing it up does nothing to Cake.

Cake is an individual meaning, that does not apply to these things, and is only the thing it's meaning applies to. You can not use it for other things, and it cannot be transferred through meaning, as that is not Cake.


If there is individual for all, then you cannot say does not exist, just what is.



The difficulty with reading a lot of that, is that your brain adds words in, that appear missing, when they aren't, when the true understanding requires exactly what is there, anything else means it is not what it is, and the processes you go through to come to it are the wrong ones, forever-created pathways to understanding, that give incorrect meaning, and are used to make increasingly erroneous extrapolations from, both in thought, and in understanding other.

08-Jan-2017 22:16:29 - Last edited on 08-Jan-2017 22:56:06 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,551 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
While creating another explanation for it will prevent proper understanding of the actual, and is vastly inaccurate.. if you're unable to make meaning, a simple bastardisation of it (almost misunderstanding of it) is:


One cannot say "X does not exist, it's actually X" or indeed say it is Y, when in actual fact, all that is needed is X, and the misunderstanding comes from trying to define it by other terms, or check it by other frames of reference. This is applied to distinct and indistinct bodies, occurrences, definable, and indefinable; each to it's own definition, and none to the same.


If further is required, then I will attempt to do so with examples, but that would further take it away from it's actual topic, and cloud the issue, leading to a misunderstanding of what is being said. It's an extremely precise system, but can be seen in basic forms, everywhere, yet is often misapplied, when trying to link ideas, or misapply methods to it.



[Note to others: This likely seems to be vague, or deliberately misleading or insubstantial, however, that is misinterpretation, due to misprocessing, largely due to only having access to one part of a conversation taking place across several platforms, therefore missing key components.]

08-Jan-2017 22:55:16 - Last edited on 08-Jan-2017 23:07:42 by Yusou Bhoroi

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