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Clan Cup 2016 Planning

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Hopalong
Mar Member 2011

Hopalong

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Calm Enigma said :
Regarding two challenges a week, I'm strongly against that for reasons I've already mentioned. It's much better to keep things simple - too much will ruin the tourny.

As far as this goes I'll show you a few stats I've just pulled up. These are very rough estimates obviously, but will give you an idea of how long it might take someone to evaluate the competition and how much help it will need as is in the document:
1. In 2013, 47 different clans registered for the Skilling Cup. This is not comparable as the formats and target audiance are vastly different, but let's just say a comparable amount of clans register for the sake of argument.
2. We can use average kill times to determine the maximum amount of time needed to spend each week reviewing material. The way the competition is set up right now, you actually only need to evaluate the top 20 clans for each week and assign points based off that. Likelyhood is none of these clans will come anywhere close to the maximum clip length for each boss, and will likely clock in at at least the average kill time for most PVMers. Relative averages and how many clips that are needed are as follows:
1. Araxxor Solo (0% enrage) - under 10 minutes. - 5 people need to submit clips.
2. Telos Solo (100% enrage) - under 15 minutes. - 5 people need to submit clips.
3. Highest Killstreak - TBA, not included in the calculations due to other problems with the challenge itsself.
4. Duo Nex - under 6 minutes. - 3 groups need to submit clips.
5. Duo Araxxor - under 8 minutes. - 3 groups need to submit clips.
6. ROTS - under 3 minutes. - 2 groups need to submit clips.
7. 5-man Vorago - under 15 minutes. - 2 groups need to submit clips.

Multiply all these together (# of clips*the average*the amount of clans), and these are the approx time needed to review the clips:
Week 1 - 97.9 Hours.
Week 2 - TBA.
Week 3 - 32.9 Hours.
Week 4 - 28.2 Hours.
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16-Jul-2016 01:10:14

Hopalong
Mar Member 2011

Hopalong

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So if we have let's say 2-3 people evaluating the clips and scoring them, it'll be a pretty easy process.

Week 1 - 97.9 Hours/3 = 32.6 hours per person. This is the heaviest week.
Week 3 - 32.9 Hours/3 = 10.9 hours per person.
Week 4 - 28.2 Hours/3 = 9.4 hours per person.

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16-Jul-2016 01:10:58 - Last edited on 16-Jul-2016 01:14:46 by Hopalong

Calm Enigma

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Mhm true, might be best to let Matthe decide on allowing planted feet, as well as see if he can get a JMod statement on it.

Regarding your calcs above Hop.. Are the weeks based on one boss per week or two? And which week is which boss?

The fact that the lowest week is 9 hours per person is a bit worrying though. It is actually a pretty damn long time to spend constantly reviewing vids every week. Not to even mention 32.6 hours per person for the first week, which is just fricking insane - that needs to be looked into badly.

Naturally the actual process will be quicker as you don't need to check every video intensely, but still I think this shows we have to try and keep things as simple as we can.
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16-Jul-2016 09:21:37

GEE0H

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Techs could help the pvm organizers if needed if the workload becomes too heavy. Especially that first week. It's the only possible way calm
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16-Jul-2016 13:43:06

Calm Enigma

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Tbh a lot of time could be cut depending on how the pvm cup organisers go about checking the vids. E.g. Skim all except the top 5 or so competing for the top spot

And naturally having 1 comp instead of 2 per week would halve the time. Not to mention it would also halve the clan cup strain on the clans competing too. Keep things simple :P
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16-Jul-2016 16:28:38

Hopalong
Mar Member 2011

Hopalong

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Calm Enigma said :
Regarding your calcs above Hop.. Are the weeks based on one boss per week or two? And which week is which boss?

The calculations are based on the document and with how many challenges are currently on it (most weeks 2). Week 1 is Fastest Average Solo Araxxor & 100% Telos, Week 3 is Fastest Average Duo Araxxor & Nex, Week 4 is Fastest ROTS & 5-man Rago. Most everything I'm talking about when it comes to the PVM Cup and challenges would have to do with the document that I drew up unless otherwise specified :P

Calm Enigma said :
Naturally the actual process will be quicker as you don't need to check every video intensely, but still I think this shows we have to try and keep things as simple as we can.

Yes you wouldn't necessarily have to evaluate all submissions that do not give them points. The most according to the doc would be the top 20 for each challenge, but the likelihood is that organizers would have to look at around ~30 clans (a little over the minimum, a little below the maximum) each week, which would put the totals more towards this:
Week 1 - 62.4 Hours.
Week 2 - TBA.
Week 3 - 21 Hours.
Week 4 - 18 Hours.

Week 1 is high because it requires a total of 10 clips from each clan. But remember these are also assuming the organizers are watching every second of the video, which to be completely honest isn't needed. Again remember these are rough estimates, and likelihood is it'll take less than projected

I don't think that this is too much to be honest. Obviously if we cut out challenges it'll reduce the amount of time needed to spend on our part, but the time spent on our end should be balanced with the fact that we should be trying to provide something new and unique, rather than the same thing as every year (we have a chance to do that with this year since it's not Jagex run). The numbers go to show we could do more and it wouldn't unduly burden organizers.
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16-Jul-2016 18:06:30 - Last edited on 16-Jul-2016 18:12:27 by Hopalong

Hopalong
Mar Member 2011

Hopalong

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In my view organizers should be prepared to spend a lot of time dedicated (on the order of like 20+ hours each week) to this, or they shouldn't be the organizer in the first place. Leader of the Slayer Nest . Join us today!

16-Jul-2016 18:13:13 - Last edited on 16-Jul-2016 18:17:30 by Hopalong

Jamo
Jul Member 2011

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Hopalong said :
Jamo said :
You can bank in between kills yes, restock, regear, get what ever you like. If you forget something before a kill starts you are now able to x-log and it will not lose your progress, however if you die or DC, x-log out of the kill once the fight has initiated then your kill-streak will end.

I'm against having a Telos Killstreak competition then, because players could use banned items (mahj aura, etc), and bank it before taking a screenie. Yes it is a pretty damn good challenge, but it's way, way, way too easy to cheat it without full video of it. If someone has a solution here that doesn't include that I'd be interested to know your thoughts.

The main concern is just planted feet and the best way to solve this issue is to have a Mod make a statement on planted feet as I said before, clearly stating: "Yes we're leaving it as is, and it will not be considered as bug abuse" or "Yes it is bug abuse, and changes will be made to fix it". However auras such as Mahjarrat aura will not cause any problems, as you're not allowed to use it at Telos (http://puu.sh/q3NJ8.jpg).
Hopalong said :
Yea I don't think forcing 100% enrage will dramatically affect the results, maybe the amount of people competing that week, but I still think it's appropriate enough for the PVM Cup.


Yeah that's not a problem, they'll only be making it harder for themselves.
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16-Jul-2016 18:54:56 - Last edited on 16-Jul-2016 18:56:00 by Jamo

Calm Enigma

Calm Enigma

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Hopalong said :
I don't think that this is too much to be honest. Obviously if we cut out challenges it'll reduce the amount of time needed to spend on our part, but the time spent on our end should be balanced with the fact that we should be trying to provide something new. The numbers go to show we could do more and it wouldn't unduly burden organisers.


I respectfully disagree. I think the numbers go to show we would definitely be overburdened with two competions in a week. Our main priority isn't to provide the most extravagant competition, but one we can promise to manage consistently. Two competitions a week not only overburdens us but also the clan reps who have to organise their clans in order to get submissions, sift through them all and provide us with the best.

I can really see interest in the cup declining if we try to put too much on people's plate. People just want to compete. They like having a clear idea of what the competition is about so they can get on with competing, without thinking too hard about rules and how to balance their attention between simultaneous competitions. So again, when it comes to competitions, simplicity is best - both for the sake of the organisers and competitors.

Regarding organiser commitment - I think we should try to cut the fat as much as possible before declaring that organisers should be prepared to work a certain amount. 20 hours a week on the cup is a lot but manageable, assuming it also includes all other organiser tasks, like answering questions, dealing with disputes etc, not just checking vids.
That said, I think that trying to increase the workload to 20 hours per week is the wrong approach. Lots of things can go wrong in competitions; organisers should be prepared to put in the extra time to deal with those, but the base workload should first of all be minimised and leave scope for extra time to be put into extraordinary circumstances.
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16-Jul-2016 22:02:14 - Last edited on 16-Jul-2016 22:06:55 by Calm Enigma

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