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Clan Cup 2016 Planning

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Hopalong
Mar Member 2011

Hopalong

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GEE0H said :
As for "planted feet", I do admit that I do not know much about this because I'm that very noob PvMer. I asked a friend what it was and it doesn't sound like a "break the system" type item like Majorrat aura, but then again, I could be wrong.
It's not game-breaking IMHO. I mean the idea behind why Mahj was banned is because it was only available to those with premier, which could be interpreted as "Pay-to-win".

Planted feet is not that. Any player can get it using Cywir components, which can be found by dismantling Seren GWD2 items. Full disclosure, I personally do not think it's that gamebreaking and I would use it if I had it (don't have the Seren rep yet). However it gives clans who know about it an upper hand over those who don't, and I can foresee other clans calling out clans for using it and bitching (for lack of a better term) about how the entire competition is rigged because of that. Then it goes to the Dispute Team, and I do not think that it should come down to them to decide that, they'll have to make enough tough calls as is. So either we bite the bullet in the beginning or at the end, and I'd rather it not be at the end. The two options I can foresee are outright banning it (as is the case now, because not many people know about it) or telling every clan about it at the start and the proceeding weeks about it and its effects. I do not favor doing the latter, but if push came to shove and the Cup hinged on it, I'd do that.

GEE0H said :
My idea for above... if we were to have 2 challenges per week, maybe 1 solo boss and 1 group boss challenge each week? Tell me what you guys think.
Not a bad idea, I'll play around with this and let you know what I think in a bit. Leader of the Slayer Nest . Join us today!

15-Jul-2016 07:21:32 - Last edited on 15-Jul-2016 07:23:51 by Hopalong

Jamo
Jul Member 2011

Jamo

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Hopalong said :

Jamo said :
Surely it would be better for them to just submit a video with the loot interface & enrage. Basically you won't see any of the kill but just the loot & enrage. If that doesn't work perhaps just have them upload the full video and add time stamps into the description, to direct us to the end of the fight.

Besides that, I can't think of anything else - sorry.
Regarding telos killstreaks, is it possible to go to the bank anytime/deposit items without it removing your killstreak (I've still not bothered killing Telos ATM)? I imagine that you can Yak things from your inventory back, which would make this super sketchy but if for some reason you can't we're in business.

You can bank in between kills yes, restock, regear, get what ever you like. If you forget something before a kill starts you are now able to x-log and it will not lose your progress, however if you die or DC, x-log out of the kill once the fight has initiated then your kill-streak will end.
In reply to the other discussion about 100% enrage and timers - if you have unlocked a certain enrage then you can start from that enrage. Timers only start at 100% enrage and there was talk about letting people know they need 100% enrage before the cup starts, well tbh I think that if anyone was to actually win the faster kills it would be somebody who already knows the boss very well, and somebody just starting to learn the boss sadly won't stand much of a chance, if any. •
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15-Jul-2016 13:03:29

Jamo
Jul Member 2011

Jamo

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Sani btw said :
Banning Planted Feet is a very bad thing imo. Literally every PvMer uses it. It's not bug-abusing either...

It's the key to efficient and ultimately 'proper' kills.

I'm not too sure which part isn't bug abuse about planted feet? You say 'every' PvMer uses it, I don't even own it and will not until they state that they're changing it so it's that way permanently. I don't see why it should be allowed at the moment, again until we hear feedback saying - "yes it is a bug & it will be fixed" or "No we're keeping it as is, due to it actually having a use". •
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15-Jul-2016 13:12:51

Calm Enigma

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@Jamo - thanks :) Just screenying the whole interface when looting each kill might work, I'll think on it over the weekend.

Regarding planted feet, I think it's too common a pvm technique to ban tbh. Jagex are definitely aware of it and have mentioned nothing against its use in such a manner so I'd personally not bother putting it on an already long rules list.

Regarding yaka, I'd replace rots with it. Needing a 10 player team makes it more of clan activity but also more difficult for more than one team to submit a result. Therefore, I'd just limit the yaka submission to one result; it doesn't impact the players involved in the Cup much (clans can still attempt as many times as they like with as many different teams as they like).

Regarding two challenges a week, I'm strongly against that for reasons I've already mentioned. It's much better to keep things simple - too much will ruin the tourny.

Regarding loot as a tie-breaker, I wouldn't discount it at all but would use it as a last resort. The order of tiebreakers I'd use is:
enrage > killstreak > kill time (for the last kill in the case of a telos streak) > loot
It is RNG but sometimes when there is no other simple differential, RNG is fine. Ofc, the chances of us even needing a tiebreak of the sort is very very unlikely. -
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15-Jul-2016 14:39:52

Jamo
Jul Member 2011

Jamo

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Calm Enigma said :
@Jamo - thanks :) Just screenying the whole interface when looting each kill might work, I'll think on it over the weekend.

Regarding planted feet, I think it's too common a pvm technique to ban tbh. Jagex are definitely aware of it and have mentioned nothing against its use in such a manner so I'd personally not bother putting it on an already long rules list.

You're welcome :)

And they are aware of it; https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/4egjq0/planted_feet_perk_a_bug_an_oversight_inventive/ Mod Shauny here says he passed it on but since then nothing has been done or said about it. I'd just like a statement from Jagex saying; "We're keeping Planted Feet as is and it will not be classed as bug abuse" or "No, it will be changed/fixed soon". •
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15-Jul-2016 15:26:47

Hopalong
Mar Member 2011

Hopalong

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Jamo said :
You can bank in between kills yes, restock, regear, get what ever you like. If you forget something before a kill starts you are now able to x-log and it will not lose your progress, however if you die or DC, x-log out of the kill once the fight has initiated then your kill-streak will end.
I'm against having a Telos Killstreak competition then, because players could use banned items (mahj aura, etc), and bank it before taking a screenie. Yes it is a pretty damn good challenge, but it's way, way, way too easy to cheat it without full video of it. If someone has a solution here that doesn't include that I'd be interested to know your thoughts.
Jamo said :
In reply to the other discussion about 100% enrage and timers - if you have unlocked a certain enrage then you can start from that enrage. Timers only start at 100% enrage and there was talk about letting people know they need 100% enrage before the cup starts, well tbh I think that if anyone was to actually win the faster kills it would be somebody who already knows the boss very well, and somebody just starting to learn the boss sadly won't stand much of a chance, if any.
Yea I don't think forcing 100% enrage will dramatically affect the results, maybe the amount of people competing that week, but I still think it's appropriate enough for the PVM Cup.
Sani btw said :
Why would loot be a tiebreaker? You're literally letting RNG control the winner of the cup this way.

Loot should never be a tiebreaker.
What would you suggest as a tiebreaker after Killstreak and Enrage then (kill time is out of the question due to ridiculous VOD lengths)? I agree with Calm that if both are tied (both extremely unlikely given the circumstances), having RNG choose the winner would be fine. This would likely never actually be needed, so I don't exactly see a problem with it. Leader of the Slayer Nest . Join us today!

16-Jul-2016 00:35:57

Hopalong
Mar Member 2011

Hopalong

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Jamo said :
And they are aware of it; https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/4egjq0/planted_feet_perk_a_bug_an_oversight_inventive/ Mod Shauny here says he passed it on but since then nothing has been done or said about it. I'd just like a statement from Jagex saying; "We're keeping Planted Feet as is and it will not be classed as bug abuse" or "No, it will be changed/fixed soon".
Exactly my thoughts. There's no clarification on it after 3 months which has led players to believe it's fine, when in fact they may consider it abuse but haven't yet found a way to patch it. There needs to be clarification on it before I include it into the competition is all I'm saying. That *shouldn't* be too much to ask, esp. given we'd have help from Matthe (I presume at least), etc. Leader of the Slayer Nest . Join us today!

16-Jul-2016 00:36:30

GEE0H

GEE0H

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"You can bank in between kills yes, restock, regear, get what ever you like. If you forget something before a kill starts you are now able to x-log and it will not lose your progress, however if you die or DC, x-log out of the kill once the fight has initiated then your kill-streak will end."

"I'm against having a Telos Killstreak competition then, because players could use banned items (mahj aura, etc), and bank it before taking a screenie. Yes it is a pretty damn good challenge, but it's way, way, way too easy to cheat it without full video of it. If someone has a solution here that doesn't include that I'd be interested to know your thoughts."


Personally, I'd like to see the entire vid with them banking and showing inventory before each kill. Leave it to the organizers to syft through it and review it at their pace. It's just the easiest way to prevent any cheating. Yes I tried using the quote button but it failed on me xd
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16-Jul-2016 00:42:47 - Last edited on 16-Jul-2016 00:47:13 by GEE0H

GEE0H

GEE0H

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@planted feet

We had this problem with "maging without runes" during combined cup 2014. I think because Jagex has said nothing and because there is obviously a player base that does this already without even thinking about it, we should just leave it in.

I've asked a friend of mine about this, who owns a PvM clan and he states that it's a basic requirement to know how to do planted feet. From the way he's explained it to me, it doesn't provide these "OMG outstanding" benefits like Maj aura.

Moreover, I'm worried about when the competition starts and we start receiving videos and having a large percentage of players using it, even after you ban it. It leaves us in a vulnerable position on how to address it.
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16-Jul-2016 00:53:47

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