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Shamantha444
Nov Member 2010

Shamantha444

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For my clan the current 7 day cool down system as it is written and implemented is working perfectly. It's a brilliant concept I've liked from day one.

As charter owner and primary recruiter I have always suggested to anyone considering us that they spend a few days guesting with us to properly evaluate the atmosphere of our cc. The majority have expressed thanks for not being rushed.

Cool down works because if someone is considering changing but unsure they will usually check out several clans and weigh their options before actually leaving. Sometimes they change their mind and don't leave.

On the downside recruiting is slower so you have to work a bit harder to get the job done.

Implementation of this system from my perspective has added greater stability to all clans. Seems that was the intent in the first place. Fealty Stars Clan Founding Owner, 20/04/2012

02-Jul-2015 21:29:52

NWO Sharum
Aug Member 2007

NWO Sharum

Posts: 7,481 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Red Sonja V said :
After months of this trial, I still despise the 7 day probation.

I feel the same way...since they haven't done much to help clans lately (pretty much ever since Citadels release - even Maz is now on OSRS), the very least they could do would be not HARMING clan's growth.

I wish there could be a turn around or some elements to ease this issue. Like, being able to recruit 5 people per week who'd bypass this 7 day limitation. Something that would allow for clans to grow moderately, but not allow for the abuse at Clan Cup.

Honestly, I don't even care about the Clan Cup, was such a game-changing update over something so little. Dissapointed.
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17-Jul-2015 20:49:29

Steel Dragon

Steel Dragon

Posts: 1,271 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Tolimo said :
A freindly clan of mine had a few of there members kicked by a rogue overseer they now have to wait 7 days to rejoin? I don't think this system works i don't like it :/

You don't have to wait 7 days to rejoin the SAME clan, just a different one.
Real life Steel Dragon
| @Marks_Rs

26-Jul-2015 15:29:31

NWO Sharum
Aug Member 2007

NWO Sharum

Posts: 7,481 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
1st Post - Reasons used to support the Cooldown Update




Original message details are unavailable.
And I think we might have pulled this off topic a little - might be better to continue this elsewhere if you need to :)

Let us continue it here.



Original message details are unavailable.
The Clan Cup was a side issue for the change to probation - the main reason was that of new player access and game health. The data monitoring we run shows that this has resulted in a positive benefit for those players and Clan numbers overall.
Side issue? You mentioned 3 -quote- "core reasons" to justify the change:

1) The delay on new Clan Members being able to function as a full member of the Clan ie Citadel skilling.
2) The ability of individuals to leave one Clan and take part in activities, including the Clan Cup, as a member of another Clan straight away. There was a significant issue with this during the Clan Cup and led to disqualifications.
3) That "Clan Hoppers" caused significant concern to a number of Clans and were something we wanted to address.
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04-Aug-2015 11:48:46 - Last edited on 04-Aug-2015 12:07:58 by NWO Sharum

NWO Sharum
Aug Member 2007

NWO Sharum

Posts: 7,481 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
2nd Post - Debunking the reasons




1 is pretty ridiculous, if you allow me to use that word. The (very scarce, if not non existant) complaints I ever saw about having to wait one week to cap demanded no wait at all.
What this 7 day cooldown did was turning the one week wait period from 'real' to 'artificial'.
It's still there, the difference is that now, besides waiting one week to cap, you have to wait one week to join another clan. Good job there.


2 is the only reason which actually makes some sense and thus was
the main drive of this update
, whether you like to admit it or not.


3 is also silly, as I've never seen these complaints you mention either. Complaining about ''clan hoppers'' is putting the blame on the players who change clans, and completely ignoring the reasons behind that change.
As many leaders can agree, if your players don't stay in your clan, maybe something is wrong with the clan itself.
Maybe your recruitment was not honest and you created expectations you couldn't meet; maybe your clan is plagued by trolling; maybe the clan's environment doesn't promote loyalty, ETC.
And even if this was a valid issue, the solution was far from effective.
If I were to draw an analogy here, I'd say you're using a nuclear bomb to exterminate an ant.
If
3
was the primary concern, you would have limited the player itself, and not the clans. For example, you could have forbidden a player to change clans more than one time in a month.
That would have prevent clan hopping, and it would have allowed players to go from one clan into another without a delay.
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04-Aug-2015 11:48:52 - Last edited on 04-Aug-2015 12:14:19 by NWO Sharum

NWO Sharum
Aug Member 2007

NWO Sharum

Posts: 7,481 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
3rd Post - Conclusions




It's clearly obvious by now, after analyzing the update's design and your wording, that
the primary (if not only) concern here was the CLAN CUP.



a) Trying to hide that is being
extremely dishonest
to all of the clan leaders who suffered from this change.

b) Defending this update based on a ''key stat'' you won't even name and numbers you won't show
is even more dishonest.
I won't go into great detail, but anyone who studies/works in the economics/statistics area (or even anyone who has a little bit of common sense) knows that
statistics can easily be manipulated into telling what you want them to tell.
They are simply too complex and intertwined to be studied lightly and separately. That is why you cannot properly analyze statistics without putting everything on the table and being transparent about it. Consequently, if you can't do that because it's ''extremely sensitive'', please don't mention any statistics at all.

c) Honestly, if "Anecdata - the verbatim of those at the coal face - has some uses, but it has the issue that it cannot see or account for larger behaviour changes and generally comes from a very specific viewpoint." I'm not even sure why there's a Clan Leaders forum.
If we're too specific and our perspective is lacking, what is the point?






To finalize - I'm sorry if I ever came across as offensive or rude, in any way. If that did happen, it was not my intention. This is a very dear topic to me and other clan leaders, specially because it was secretly developed and released, without our opinion being accounted for. Development resources were wasted on clan updates we didn't want while we are continuously denied updates and features we've been asking for, for YEARS.

I seriously hope you'll reconsider your stance and revert this update,
NWO Sharum.
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04-Aug-2015 11:58:20 - Last edited on 04-Aug-2015 12:21:08 by NWO Sharum

Fire Hawk154

Fire Hawk154

Posts: 9,001 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
NWO Sharum said :
It's clearly obvious by now, after analyzing the update's design and your wording, that
the primary (if not only) concern here was the CLAN CUP.


This is really something I cannot believe though. Why would they give all clans all year long a 7 day probation if they could:
A) make it a temporary probation for the clans involved in the clan cup
B) easily monitor the clans in the clan cup
C) use a report system during the clan cup

It doesn't make sense to invest time in a probation system when there are many easier solutions IF the clan cup was the main reason to have a probation system. Let's also not forget most clans had no problem with clan hoppers and simply used the accounts in their clan chat. Maybe a select few clans had some clan hoppers which probably didn't effect any of the results. The clans who won the JCups were the clans that performed good all year long.

I did read Matthe mentioned Clan competitions, but maybe they are secretly working on a system that provides automated clan competition (skill competitions, battle ladders, who knows). So the clan cup being the main reason is not likely.
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04-Aug-2015 15:01:23 - Last edited on 04-Aug-2015 15:04:23 by Fire Hawk154

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