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Probation/Cooldown Suggestions

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Ankovmovtov
Jul Member 2012

Ankovmovtov

Posts: 204 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I can see why the new system has its benefits, but we have had problems recruiting since it was implemented. You see, our homeworld has very large clans, and finding someone that isn't in a clan is very rare. That means that all our recruits come from existing clans, and now unfortunately they have to wait 7 days before joining ours. Although people want to, we found that it acts as a barrier, especially because of the use of the clan avatar which was never on a 7 day cooldown, but rather only the time to take the orts: 2 days at least. Even in the case where we got people to leave their own clan and wait as a guest for those 7 days, all clans jumped on them and they ended up joining another.

The kicking bug-abuse is troubling too, although it hasn't happened in my clan yet, I have seen screenshots from other clans where someone caused so much grief just just kicked rather than leave. The awareness of this way is rising. Yesterday someone even asked me if they can use it to cap multiple times a week.

I own a clan where until the recent citadel update capping was mandatory. We were able to scrap it after upkeep was lowered. Probation was never really an issue for us. As for clan hoppers, we had little trouble there. I've not seen clan hoppers over the clan cup before either, but that's probably because 90% of the clans in Runescape really don't care about it.

Optional solutions
Joining/leaving a clan should be completely detached from capping. Instead, you can allow capping once per week:
- Make all citadels reset at exactly the same time a week;
- Making the citadel a weekly D&D;
- Adding a cooldown of exactly 7 days, much like the Tears of Guthix D&D had for so very long.

If none of that is possible, then at least a cooldown based on capping. Say I capped 3 days ago, leaving now will allow me to join another clan right away, but still give me 4 days on probation. That should solve the bug-abuse with the kicking too.

05-Feb-2015 10:32:27

Moonsy

Moonsy

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I like how new members can immediate use the citadel and the 7-day cooldown forces clan hoppers to take the time to pick their next clan. This system discourages "spur of the moment" joiners who exit moments later because they've already changed their minds.

My only suggestion is to have the 7-day cool down for all exits, kicks included. In most clans people are never kicked accidentally, but rather for serious rule-breaking. If there is no 7-day cooldown for kicks this will:
1. Encourage rule breaking in a clan
2. Capping only limited by how often you can manage to get kicked and join a new clan in one week

If this could be changed, I'd feel a lot more comfortable with this new update. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to give feedback on this update.
~~~
Coordinator of
Modest Skillers
~~~

05-Feb-2015 11:12:49

Ryanc360
Jun Member 2005

Ryanc360

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I've been reading through this thread since it was created, and after some thought I think I've identified three main issues people have with this update that are addressable under the guidelines provided. I've also selected a couple proposed ideas to resolve these issues that I would not mind seeing (with a couple modifications I think might help).

Problem One: Viewing how long someone has left on their week cooldown

Understandably this feature has been suggested by many people throughout the thread. As clan leaders we want to know things like this so we can be proactive with our potential recruits, thus allowing for a better first impression. Such a system would also alleviate the burden of keeping track ourselves (Not everyone wants to build databases or spreadsheets).

Solution:

As mentioned above this has been suggested by many many people on this thread and the previous one. Personally I would not mind seeing this added in one of two (or both) places.
1. In the player examine where the clan name is listed (if they were in a clan). Pretty simply if you ask me but then again I've no idea how that would have to be coded in runescript (don't throw acorns at me Maz!).
2. In the clan chat we could access this using the citadel contribution button for guests. Obviously people not in the clan can't contribute to the citadel, so reusing this button for them seemslogical (feasibility unknown).

05-Feb-2015 18:02:57 - Last edited on 06-Feb-2015 01:49:24 by Ryanc360

Ryanc360
Jun Member 2005

Ryanc360

Posts: 21,835 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Problem Two: Opening the clan chat for guests allows trolls.

Once again this has been mentioned by many people. Some clans keep their chat closed to help secure their chat from the idiots that plague the internet.

Solution:

Two options I would not mind seeing.
1. Again it's been suggested so often I can't possibly give credit to everyone for the idea, but a white list for guests. Close the chat and the clan invite automatically adds the person to the white list, however I don't think they should automatically be added to the clan once their cool down expires.

2. I believe it was Sofaking who suggested this (forgive me if I gave credit to the wrong person), but add a rank to clans that is essentially a smiley rank from the old friend chat system. The clan invite button would add them to the chat as the smiley rank but they would not be placed in the clan high scores and would not receive ort drops from skilling or pvm.
The way I imagine it could work is that they are added to the clan in such a way that restricts their use of clan utilities that is in line with the requirements of this thread, but still allows access to the clan data. This could allow jagex to recycle some of the old probation system code to keep track of when this person's cool down expires. Once the cool down has expired an admin of the clan is then able to open the clan settings and promote this person just as they would promoted anyone else in the clan, but during the cooldown this would not be possible.

05-Feb-2015 18:03:05 - Last edited on 06-Feb-2015 01:49:50 by Ryanc360

Ryanc360
Jun Member 2005

Ryanc360

Posts: 21,835 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Problem Three: Recruiting in general.

There are those that seem to find it harder to recruit now that there is a 7 day cool down between leaving and joining a clan. I believe I read one person's post where they mentioned their home world hosts many large clans and so everyone they try to recruit is already in a clan. When they convince someone to leave one clan to join theirs, they have to wait the 7 days.

Solution:

Simple solution. I recall at one point someone saying (I want to say it was Matthe but don't hit me with your banhammer if I'm wrong) that most of the runescape players, or at least a large portion of them, were not in clans at all. Why not make it easier to access this untapped resource for clans? We could do this ourselves by attempting to recruit on worlds other than our home worlds (if you don't already do this), but perhaps a wee nudge from Jagex could be helpful too?

1. The most recent update designed to help clans recruit was the clan camp rework where they also added vex stands to Burthorpe. Arguably this update was somewhat of a flop to some but the basic principal wasn't bad, make it easier for more clans to advertise in the more populated areas of Gielinor. At the time that was Burthorpe, but now with the elf city accessible could we not do with some vex stands there as well? A city centered around NPC clans and all it has is a teleport to our citadels? I don't think some vex stands would be too much to ask for would it? This would allow more clans to advertise in the same general space, AND give people looking for a clan more options than that single clan that somehow always manages to plant their vex in the middle of the tower of voices (bastards).

05-Feb-2015 18:03:38 - Last edited on 06-Feb-2015 01:50:08 by Ryanc360

Tyki Mikk

Tyki Mikk

Posts: 906 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ryanc360 said :
TL;DR

You are going to have to read it. Get over it.


But reading is hard, is there some TH promotion that can do that for me?

Jokes(?) aside, nice recap of the thread Ryan. These would solve a lot of problems people had with the update.
Tyki Mikk
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The Phoenix is reborn, and the Tale continues...

05-Feb-2015 19:26:45 - Last edited on 05-Feb-2015 21:11:39 by Tyki Mikk

fAIL gRAMMAR

fAIL gRAMMAR

Posts: 3,794 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Having had not much to read off because I have been away for a while, I think that the 7 day cooldown is a bit weird to get my head around.

I'm going to address some of these "core issues" and try and get some answers for it.

1) The delay on new Clan Members being able to function as a full member of the Clan ie Citadel skilling.

With the old system, you had to wait a week to be able to cap. Under this system, you now need to wait a week to be able to join the clan and then cap straight away. Isn't this a bit redundant? It's effectively the same thing as you are still having to wait a week to cap.

2) The ability of individuals to leave one Clan and take part in activities, including the Clan Cup, as a member of another Clan straight away. There was a significant issue with this during the Clan Cup and led to disqualifications.

May I ask what the significant issue was? Is it that you needed to be a full member to participate in RCW for Combat Cup? Because as far as I can tell that would be the problem. For skilling cup, from day one of joining you were able to accumulate xp straight away, so now effectively you are fixing the combat cup side, whilst making the skilling side have an issue for this year's CC.

3) That "Clan Hoppers" caused significant concern to a number of Clans and were something we wanted to address.

What concerns would that be? Only things I know about clan hoppers is from friends who run F2P clans that would get people joining only if they received gp, then left straight after receiving it. Sure, by adding in a 7 day cooldown this prevents people from joining for this reason, but I would like to see what these concerns are.

If you are still intent on doing it through a new system then why not a compromise of a hybrid system between the old and new?

Cheerio,

-James
This character has been poor since his creation in June 2005.
1 Like = 1 GP / 1 Share = 10 GP

05-Feb-2015 22:06:23

AoDude

AoDude

Posts: 1,694 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Any chance we could get an update from
Mod Matthe/Mod Maz
on your thoughts on the recent ideas presented? My thinking is, if any of the recent/unaddressed ideas are technically feasible maybe we can hone in a little better. We can then work together to polish what is feasible into one Master Idea that is a good compromise to fixing both clan management issues (recruiting), and Jagex run clan events (clan cup).
AO
Deputy-Owner :
The Nexus CC

06-Feb-2015 01:31:22

Body btw

Body btw

Posts: 19,488 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It seems like any clan update is a massive project, but virtually anything is technically feasible provided there is enough resource and time to get behind it :p Assuming I'm right about clan updates being extremely painful to code, everything is a hopelessly difficult request, but they'll consider the best and implement them when possible. I'm no Jmod though ofc ^_^

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06-Feb-2015 04:06:18

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