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Thylordship
Apr Member 2023

Thylordship

Posts: 1,372 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It's one thing to say you don't agree with the reasons given, but there are plenty of legitimate reasons given. I'm not rewriting all the points in the past 20 pages as I'd need about 5 posts just to list the basics.

I'm just going to say that just because a clan can get by, it shouldn't be hobbled when a system can be put in place so it can flourish at the same pace and same ease as clans with leaders should they wish it rather than suffer due to reasons listed already.

Jagex created this problem with the introduction of the current system and they are finally going to look into fixing it when they can.

11-Dec-2013 11:01:30

[#OUEGO5OBM]

[#OUEGO5OBM]

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No need to list Thylordship.=) I have read all the posts and still for the life of me can't find any reason why a clan would fail just because the clan leader wasn't present unless ofc the deputies allowed it to fail. In which case the deputies probably shouldn't be considered for leadership and Mod Matthe is right to have nothing to do with this.

11-Dec-2013 11:17:44

Thylordship
Apr Member 2023

Thylordship

Posts: 1,372 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Well actually it's already slated to be evaluated and prioritized when Mod Maz returns as well as the CM team already agreed a system should be in place.

But don't you view that as even slightly biased? So if a clan fails because it has no leader, it's the runner's up who's at fault and not the leader because the not-leaders who don't have complete control couldn't do it properly and the leader who isn't on should still remain in his seat of power that is not doing anything?

There's no room for any consideration that from a seat of unquestioned power and not fighting with conflicting same ranks on the proper course that things could run smoother?

11-Dec-2013 11:42:45

[#OUEGO5OBM]

[#OUEGO5OBM]

Posts: 11,155 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Thylordship said :
Well actually it\'s already slated to be evaluated and prioritized when Mod Maz returns as well as the CM team already agreed a system should be in place.

But don\'t you view that as even slightly biased? So if a clan fails because it has no leader, it\'s the runner\'s up who\'s at fault and not the leader because the not-leaders who don\'t have complete control couldn\'t do it properly and the leader who isn\'t on should still remain in his seat of power that is not doing anything?

There\'s no room for any consideration that from a seat of unquestioned power and not fighting with conflicting same ranks on the proper course that things could run smoother?

I'm not convinced the argument stands that a clan will fail if a clan leader is MIA. However considering it is usually the deputies who want Jagex to intervene in such situations it is logical to conclude that if the clan is already failing then those deputies probably wouldn't be the best choice as a replacement and it would probably be better for the members of the clan to find a clan where someone can lead them successfully. Which kind of negates the argument for Jmod intervention of any kind.

I'm sure I have understood Mod Matthe completely thanks Samurai 2005

11-Dec-2013 12:11:51

Thylordship
Apr Member 2023

Thylordship

Posts: 1,372 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Well I agree that not all clans will fail. In fact, I'd say it's a complete toss-up. It completely depends on how the owner set up everything before his absence. But it is a fact that it's a very possibility a clan will fail if the leader is MIA depending on situations. And this system is designed for those who were let down by their owner so I'll focus on them.

But how can you know that? When promoted, they go from a position of fighting with others in their position should they disagree to a single purpose for the clan and one heading. This unites the admins and so can focus the clan to do what it wants. It's not fair to rule someone out because they couldn't act like a leader when they don't have the tools of a leader.

This seems like a self defeating prophecy, if they fail without the owner spot it's their fault and so wouldn't deserve it anyway, but if they succeed they may have earned it, but the previous owner still keeps it by virtue of him being the previous owner. Either the dep owner is incompetent or owner chose right before he left his clan?

And not necessarily do people who ask for help mean they've failed, as a high ranking admin, you develop the ability of foresight. This is because as you plan events, you have to see how to do it etc. All asking for help means is you can see the real possibility of failure. Running a clan when the deck is stacked against you is hard and stressful and this is supposed to be a game, not a job.

11-Dec-2013 12:30:02

Pescao6
Aug Member 2007

Pescao6

Posts: 9,075 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Why are you guys discussing if a Clan needs or not a Leader? O_o

Can we just focus on the issue at hand which is that Deputy Owners want the permissions of Owners so that they can manage the Clan better if the Owner ever goes MIA?

We could make this so simple:

- Give all Owner permissions except ability to change the Clan Name to Deputy Owners by default.


No need to remove Inactive Owners.
No need to change anything else.

I mean we need the Permissions System reworked anyways:

- We asked for the Avatar Warden Permissions .

Currently: All Admin+ can do this; I want all Clanmates / Other Clans want to choose.
- We asked for the Remove Clanmates from the Clan Permissions .

Currently: All Admin+ can do this; I want only Deputy Owners and Owners / Other Clans want to choose.

KittyFlower said :
Pescao6 said :
As we talked on Clchat earlier, wouldn't an alternative solution would be to give the same permissions the Owner has to the Deputy Owners by default?
I mean I think the only permission I wouldn't want my Deputy Owners to have would be the ability to change the Clan Name; but I'm fine with giving them all of the rest.
i have to say i actually do agree with this. i trust me deputies as much as i would trust myself.
Does anyone have a problem with this suggestion?
*
Pescao6
of
El Imperio Latino

Hola Noob! Klk? What's up?
~
Discord: Pescao6#0001

11-Dec-2013 13:58:38

Ignore List
Sep Member 2011

Ignore List

Posts: 4,879 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@pescao6

I like that as long as I can kick inactives, and am automatically get permissions for new clan content it's ok.

I have to ask just because you don't want your clan name changed why should all clan conform to that? Most clans won't change clan names anyway. For my clan if just capitalise the b in bass and the d in drums.... So I'm not changing it much as I......
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11-Dec-2013 14:53:16

Pescao6
Aug Member 2007

Pescao6

Posts: 9,075 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ignore List said :
I have to ask just because you don't want your clan name changed why should all clan conform to that? Most clans won't change clan names anyway. For my clan if just capitalise the b in bass and the d in drums.... So I'm not changing it much as I......
Well thing about names is...
If you change the name of the Clan, it sort-of becomes another Clan.

So I wouldn't want something like say a Rogue Deputy Owner changing my Clan's Name to Pretty Flowers or something crazy like that.

What you're asking is not really changing the name of the clan; it's more like fixing the capitalization, but that won't affect the Clan Name when you search for it so perhaps a JMod could help you out with that.

In a related topic, I recall Jagex saying something about planning to add a Clan Chat feature that would allow you to change how the Clan Name was displayed on the Clan Chat like perhaps just the initials or a shorter version of the Clan Name. But I'm not sure what happened with that idea; I assume it got pushed behind more important requests.
*
Pescao6
of
El Imperio Latino

Hola Noob! Klk? What's up?
~
Discord: Pescao6#0001

11-Dec-2013 15:32:29

Princess Rae
Oct
fmod Member
2002

Princess Rae

Forum Moderator Posts: 9,522 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I had to give permission to the Deputy Owners to be able to use the broadcast system. Not a biggie in this case, but there are sometimes occasions when the person with the owner rank does need to be around.

Thanks for looking into this Mod Matthe. Should be very helpful for those clans whose owners go missing. Spirits of Arianwyn | @Rae_Aus

11-Dec-2013 16:02:02

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