RuneScape Forum Archive | Inactive Clan Owners

Oct

2009

Elf

Posts: 1,368 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I suppose this depends upon the reason why a clan leader is inactive.

If the inactivity is predicted by them and they care enough about their clan and clan mates the logical thing would be to relinquish leadership and replace themselves with a person who they feel would act always in the clan's best interest and on whom they are totally confident in.

If the inactivity is caused by a traumatic event, and the leader won't be playing Runescape again then this action is necessary.

I am sure these and other scenarios will be considered before this is implemented, and I would hope that a time scale of at least 3 months would apply.

Jads

Clan Leader of Bonded

05-Dec-2013 12:28:43

Jan

2008

Leta

Forum Moderator Posts: 25,401 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Ignore List said :
@leta,
I totally understand were you are coming from, but honestly tell me would you rather a clan die than replace an owner? Say you did go inactive for 1 year and see your clan dead as you were not there to lead how would you feel?

Personally, yes. I would not wish for my leadership to change hands. If I were to go inactive, the clan could carry on without me until I returned, or leave and reform if they truly felt that to be necessary. If I were to go inactive, I would ofcourse be crushed to come back and see my clan withering, but I would be more devastated if I had been unseated from my own clan. A withering clan could be quickly turned around, while one may not be able to undo the forceful derank. That said, one could simply ask for it back from the clanmate that was made leader in their absence.. But what if they would not give it back? (Not an issue for me I'd think, but it is still a valid concern nonetheless). Perhaps the million dollar question is: Does 6 months of inactivity disqualify you from the leadership of your own clan that you created and have perhaps been leading for 3, 5, 8+ years?

Perhaps I have a different perspective.. Many clans have structured layers of admins which may spread leadership duties or are there to fall back on at least. For me it is simply me, and a citadel manager. There is no backup. I wouldn't feel right about my clan being in the hands of another. Truthfully, I am the only one I can fully trust with the leadership of my particular clan. A clan can also be destroyed if the wrong person takes over for an inactive leader, then the leader returns to find ruin, or nothing at all.

I suppose I just can't imagine a clan leader being deranked in their own clan.. But each clan and leader is different, so it's hard to make such a one-size-fits all rule.

It's not a good scenario in any case, but it's simply not something I believe should be interfered with. RSC - Gone, but never forgotten.

05-Dec-2013 12:31:11 - Last edited on 05-Dec-2013 13:01:29 by Leta

Astralach

Posts: 6,228 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Leta said :
A withering clan could be quickly turned around, while one may not be able to undo the forceful derank.
Not all clan owners who become inactive return to RuneScape . For some clans, the prospect of dissolving and then reforming is simply too hard to go through. What you've said in your other posts about clans having had know choice but to reform since the days of Classic (Off-topic: Could you help me out with the Shield of Arrav quest if I do come back to RSC? How's that thread of yours going?), but just because that has been the harsh reality for a number of years now that doesn't mean that it has to be continue to be so. The clan updates of 2011 and beyond which greatly expanded the clan system can only have made it harder still for those clans which go through such a renaissance .

I'm not denying that a system that allows for inactive clan owner to be demoted to deputy would be extremely implement given everything that needs to be taken into consideration, but I firmly believe in its necessity. As for you individual circumstances, surely your clanmates wouldn't seek to remove you from your position if you were to take six month break? I would only be happy for a threshold longer than six months to be implemented if the system could be made retrospective. RGU | CLF | FGU | Ninja | EGC | Premier | General

05-Dec-2013 13:04:20

Sep

2011

Ignore List

Posts: 4,879 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@Leta,

Believe my I completely understand how you feel, I per so ally feel most leaders would step down than see their clan die and claim it back when needed.

I understand you feel you are the only one you can trust so I put this to you, would you hold your child's hand and protect him from everything? Or trust what he's learnt from you and learn from his mistakes and such?

In my clan getting admin is a prestigious thing as it means you meet the criteria and above all I trust you completely, I would. It rank anyone above general if I did not trust them at all the reason being admins had the ability to dissolve clans in a heartbeat, and for me it goes beyond that I'd trust them with items if they would need it.

All to their own I guess ^_^

Ray
|
Need Help?
Try the Support Centre |
Owner
of Bass and Drums

05-Dec-2013 13:52:06

Jan

2008

Leta

Forum Moderator Posts: 25,401 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

"As for you individual circumstances, surely your clanmates wouldn't seek to remove you from your position if you were to take six month break?"

I can't imagine that they would care to do so, no. But if I were to hypothetically go inactive, due to this system it seems like it would be forced, whether or not myself or the clan wanted it.

And it is true, not all inactive leaders would return. And that makes me wonder, how does one define inactivity? 6 Months may be too short of time (and the longer the better, imo, if this must be done), but would clans be patient enough to wait say, a whole year, to usurp their inactive leader's position? I think either way there will be problems, either with leaders coming back to find their clans are no longer theirs due to circumstances beyond their control, or that there are clans with clan leaders which have been inactive for a few months and don't wish to wait however many more months for leadership to transfer. There will also be clans with largely inactive leaders that only log in for a few minutes every few weeks/months and clanmates may be unhappy that this prevents leadership from transferring to someone more active. So, I suppose I am left wondering, what is inactive? And would an automated system really help? Could these issues not be taken on a case-by-case basis so that all variables could be taken into account in ways which a simple automated sweep could not do?

I suppose I'm really just playing the devil's advocate here, for the sake of debate, as I can't foresee this affecting me or my clan personally. So, if it is deemed necessary by the majority, I wont complain, but I don't think I'll ever personally be in favour of it. I suppose I should hope I never have any sort of real-life issue that would keep me from my clan for an extended period of time.

And yes I can help you with Arrav whenever you are ready.

RSC - Gone, but never forgotten.

05-Dec-2013 14:09:54

Choobokka

Posts: 534 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

To quote the great philosopher Spock, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one." A clan of 20, 50, or 200 people should not have to fail because the leader has gone inactive. This is a positive solution for clans where this has been and is a real issue. There have been multiple posts on CLF about this issue and Jagex is trying to solve it. Let's support this effort.

Yes, its a theoretical problem for people who would probably not ever let their accounts go inactive. Those opposed - when was the last time you didn't log into the game for 90 days? In my case, I have been an RS member since 2005, and have never gone 30 days without logging into RS. (And there was no penalty for not doing so.) With a 90 day action timer, Jagex would be asking clan leaders to spend 5 minutes 4 times a year to maintain clan leadership.

LNL never skipped a beat when original founder Doriana passed ownership to me. We didn't even announce the change. The keys just changed color in the cc.

Summarizing some of the best suggestions to date:
1) A warning email message at 60 and 75 days. (Remember, this is not going to happen to people who care about their clans.)
2) With clans with multiple deputy owners, the owner should be able to designate the "heir apparent" as suggested by Lucine and others. In the absence of an heir apparent, the most active deputy is chosen.
3) The deputy / heir is automatically promoted.
4) Upon demotion, the clan functions just like any other clan.
This will be a rare enough occurrence that Jagex should not need to protect the clan name, the demoted leader's membership in clan, etc from the possibility that his hand-picked successor will kick the former leader, rename the clan, etc.

Like many things in RS this is not perfect for 100% of the clans or leaders. But this seems like a very positive step for the majority of situations.

05-Dec-2013 14:22:23

Jun

2023

Psyop Egirl

Posts: 4,033 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I agree that there should be something that can be done about this. Because I know first hand how it can be destructive to a clan having a leader who does not play. However I also realize there are certain concerns that Jagex has in removing leaders left and right.

This really should be a clan issue, and should be taken into the thoughts of leaders before they decide to quit or take prolonged absences.

05-Dec-2013 14:30:08 - Last edited on 05-Dec-2013 14:30:19 by Psyop Egirl

Jan

2008

Leta

Forum Moderator Posts: 25,401 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Nice Timing,

I am very pleased to know that my clan has learned from me (at least I think that they have hehe). And I trust my clanmates very much. I too would not rank someone over a gold star unless they are completely trusted, and I will trust them with my time and wealth whenever they need it. I am completely at their disposal in that respect. However, I may have not worded things as well as I should have. While I do trust them in the sense that they will give me back my drygore mace after borrowing it, I don't believe that they would be fit to lead and sustain the clan. Leadership seems easy enough in principal, but is harder in practice. It also isn't always something that can be taught, imo. If I were to go inactive I would think that the clan would slowly wither to nothing even if leadership were transferred, which would defeat the purpose of a transfer. Just to clarify that.

I wonder how many other clans out there also don't have a clear back-up leader, or if I truly am an anomaly. O_o

RSC - Gone, but never forgotten.

05-Dec-2013 14:44:05

Astralach

Posts: 6,228 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Leta said :
I can't imagine that they would care to do so, no. But if I were to hypothetically go inactive, due to this system it seems like it would be forced, whether or not myself or the clan wanted it.

And it is true, not all inactive leaders would return. And that makes me wonder, how does one define inactivity? 6 Months may be too short of time (and the longer the better, imo, if this must be done), but would clans be patient enough to wait say, a whole year, to usurp their inactive leader's position? I think either way there will be problems, either with leaders coming back to find their clans are no longer theirs due to circumstances beyond their control, or that there are clans with clan leaders which have been inactive for a few months and don't wish to wait however many more months for leadership to transfer. There will also be clans with largely inactive leaders that only log in for a few minutes every few weeks/months and clanmates may be unhappy that this prevents leadership from transferring to someone more active. So, I suppose I am left wondering, what is inactive? And would an automated system really help? Could these issues not be taken on a case-by-case basis so that all variables could be taken into account in ways which a simple automated sweep could not do?
Firstly, I don't think that this system should be forced. A lengthly minimum period to define inactivity is all well and good, but what's preventing inactive clan owners from returning for five minutes every twelve months? Any system would have to factor in the amount of time played in the last X months, not just when the owner last logged in. Of course there will be some impatient clans, but they'll just have to wait. For all they know, their leader might return someday. I think that an automated system is the only way to go about it tbh. We could do things on a case-by-case basis, but that could well result in a huge backlog. RGU | CLF | FGU | Ninja | EGC | Premier | General

05-Dec-2013 14:44:46 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2013 01:14:59 by Astralach

Astralach

Posts: 6,228 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

We don't yet know what variables an automated system would be able to take into account, so there's no use hypothesising that it mightn't be able to bear certain factors in mind.

Leta said :
I suppose I'm really just playing the devil's advocate here, for the sake of debate, as I can't foresee this affecting me or my clan personally. So, if it is deemed necessary by the majority, I wont complain, but I don't think I'll ever personally be in favour of it. I suppose I should hope I never have any sort of real-life issue that would keep me from my clan for an extended period of time.
Fair enough, I'm sure that such as system wouldn't affect the vast majority of clans.

Leta said :
And yes I can help you with Arrav whenever you are ready.

Thanks, I hope to get my quest cape on RS3 first, and then maybe do a few things on OSRS, but I should be able to find some time to play Classic. ^_^

RGU | CLF | FGU | Ninja | EGC | Premier | General

05-Dec-2013 14:47:04 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2013 01:20:06 by Astralach

Forums

Inactive Clan Owners