RuneScape Forum Archive | New Player Experience

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

H 1 L D A said :
2. Potential hot-take.

I prefer Tutorial Island/Ashdale's insular nature as opposed to Burthorpe or Lumbridge. The reason above (distraction) applies here, but also I think it allows RuneScape to sell its strongest suits.

I would use 'Shadow over Ashdale' as a "sequel" to a tutorial conflict in which the player learns about basic combat, how to stay alive, how to fight, how to engage with NPCs/in-game shops, and basic skilling. Perhaps this could be an "evacuation" of Ashdale as the Crassians launch their attack, and the player "comes back" to Ashdale in order to complete 'SoA' and provide closure to the island's story before it becomes obsolete for the remainder of the game.

What this achieves:

1. It establishes the player's narrative importance (Hello, future World-Guardian and Duke.)
2. It establishes basic survival skills.
3. It establishes the importance of combat - especially if you're going to stick the player in legacy mode at the start. (I don't ...hate it.... but I would need some explanation as to why!) I think this would work perfectly as a tutorial. All of the resources are there to introduce story, combat, and the Woodcutting/Fishing/Cooking/Firemaking skill combo. If there isn’t already an NPC/shop selling weapons and armour, one could be added. Then on the mainland, players would learn more about equipment, quests, and other game features such as trade.

The Legacy combat thing was an oversight. I thought of it as a way to bypass having to learn RS3 combat during the tutorial, but I didn’t adjust the rest of the combat sequence accordingly. I also wasn’t taking into account the changes currently in development with the combat beta. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

21-Dec-2023 02:18:17

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Seasons Past said :
...

That is basically what revolution is for. Or well - basically necromancy without any input right now or the older combat styles following the beta - they are basically 'legacy combat' if you just do not do anything then - except for the actual legacy combat preventing you to influence combat if needed (or even using incantations in necromancy).

/update: Seemingly the auto attack was cut again.

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/18lzclj/combat_beta_update_2_feedback_update/

I mean it doesn't contribute much due to the vast amount of abilities those styles would have - for necromancy the auto attack certainly is more integral.

Since the game gives new players are fairly simple bars, players rather should know about how to build their own - as in how to priortize things, since right now some basic abilities just are so much better than others - obviously things to unlock (or upgrade) should be, but I don't think it's easy to build up a perfect bar without help.

Legacy combat mode does not even exist on mobile, it just works fine with revolution. Issue just more is, building a good bar is a rather unintuitive process compared to other games. It's a better with Necromancy, but I wouldn't call it good. Albeit I am really not sure how this could be improved without remaking the entire system from scratch. It probably would help if we had something like a system in which you could import and export your entire UI as well. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

21-Dec-2023 07:54:33 - Last edited on 21-Dec-2023 10:20:46 by Rikornak

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

In general players should know where and how to gain their supplies needed. GE does not exist for ironmen, so it obviously should be shops and later on your skills - which is something the troll warzone and later on the path system hasn't done too bad of a job for that matter. While the air altar is in a much better position than it was in the past, it obviously still is only encountered a bit later in a player's progression - probably the reason why Burthope has received that rune store in 2012.

Other than that I would say the process to gain your ammunition is distinct enough compared to making your own equipment for it to be shown (especially for arrows the interaction between fletching and smithing).

It's not like it would be an issue if skills have their own tutorials later on - every single skill following dungeoneering has this after all. So it probably also wouldn't hurt if runecrafting is shown closed off as well. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

21-Dec-2023 08:28:56

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Rikornak said :
In general players should know where and how to gain their supplies needed. GE does not exist for ironmen, so it obviously should be shops and later on your skills - which is something the troll warzone and later on the path system hasn't done too bad of a job for that matter. While the air altar is in a much better position than it was in the past, it obviously still is only encountered a bit later in a player's progression - probably the reason why Burthope has received that rune store in 2012.

Other than that I would say the process to gain your ammunition is distinct enough compared to making your own equipment for it to be shown (especially for arrows the interaction between fletching and smithing).

It's not like it would be an issue if skills have their own tutorials later on - every single skill following dungeoneering has this after all. So it probably also wouldn't hurt if runecrafting is shown closed off as well. It's true that ammunition has a separate creation process. I think it's worth teaching. I just question whether it needs to be in the main tutorial. Crossbows and bolts could even potentially be included post-tutorial.

If the tutorial takes place on Ashdale, equipment creation can be delayed until Lumbridge. During the tutorial, the player would hastily have to borrow a weapon of their choice from an NPC. Due to the sudden Crassian uprising, there wouldn't be time to show the player how to make their own equipment. At the end of the tutorial, the weapon would be returned to Ashdale. The player would then go to Lumbridge and learn how to make their own weapon and/or armour.

If the player chooses Ranged or Magic, they'd get a chargebow or air staff, delaying the need for ammunition. Those weapons could have their damage slightly nerfed to make the shortbow and wizard wand relevant when the player goes to Lumbridge. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

21-Dec-2023 17:16:27 - Last edited on 21-Dec-2023 17:59:26 by Seasons Past

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Rikornak said :
Seasons Past said :
...

That is basically what revolution is for. Or well - basically necromancy without any input right now or the older combat styles following the beta - they are basically 'legacy combat' if you just do not do anything then - except for the actual legacy combat preventing you to influence combat if needed (or even using incantations in necromancy).

/update: Seemingly the auto attack was cut again.

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/18lzclj/combat_beta_update_2_feedback_update/

I mean it doesn't contribute much due to the vast amount of abilities those styles would have - for necromancy the auto attack certainly is more integral.

Since the game gives new players are fairly simple bars, players rather should know about how to build their own - as in how to priortize things, since right now some basic abilities just are so much better than others - obviously things to unlock (or upgrade) should be, but I don't think it's easy to build up a perfect bar without help.

Legacy combat mode does not even exist on mobile, it just works fine with revolution. Issue just more is, building a good bar is a rather unintuitive process compared to other games. It's a better with Necromancy, but I wouldn't call it good. Albeit I am really not sure how this could be improved without remaking the entire system from scratch. It probably would help if we had something like a system in which you could import and export your entire UI as well. I honestly forgot about Revolution. I don't really play much anymore.

I feel like adding the auto-attack ability would have helped new players. There aren't many abilities to work with at early levels, so the gap where you don't have any abilities to use stings. That was one of the reasons I thought of Legacy, which I'd forgotten. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

21-Dec-2023 17:21:20

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Seasons Past said :
...

Certainly agreeing with players not being needed to be shown every singular iteration of weaponry they could come by directly in the tutorial area, but I don't think shoving them to staves of air and chargebows would strike the deal - the latter is a rather uncommon weapon at lower and medium levels, the former by far doesn't cover what magic is up to - even at at the very beginning. Nerfing tiers and the like could be done, but then you won't stay at those levels for long anyway. As for melee they had expanded the burthope mine with iron ore a while ago to naturally show them, they can progress to better materials after a while - normally you just need to find them somewhere in the game world.

Speaking of the crossbow, it probably would be better if players could find a NPC somewhere in misthalin and asgarnia, who would teach them how to create one - yet another closed off mini tutorial if you will. This can apply to lots of more advanced features to be honest - taking OS for reference, they basically made a miniquest showing the general mechanics of construction and how to get the materials needed for that. I think it does a decent job for new players to be fair, since starting out that skill always was a bit weird... it probably helped to have a sawmill and a construction supplies vendor close to the POH entrance when it comes to RS3. Should be up to them again to cover things, that just do not directly work out of their context, but the tutorial experience for newer skills also was done for good reasons. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

22-Dec-2023 06:50:24

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Seasons Past said :
...

I think that was fixed with the introduction of the 'lesser' abilities back in 2019 to allow players to start with multiple abilities for each combat style. Obviously they won't allow for a perfect rotation just from the get-go, but it's not like players would be forced to fall back to legacy for the first few dozens of levels. If you think of it - necromancy only has an auto attack up to level 8 and it will receive its second and final basic ability at level 54, the other styles force you to prioritize your abilities at that point for a basic revolution bar already. They probably would need to cull a few things to make that auto attack as relevant as it is for necromancy - and considering you unlock or upgrade quite a few abilities for the older combat styles... can't see that to happen (unless said upgrades are applied to your auto attack or so...) Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

22-Dec-2023 06:58:23

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

The paths for members’ skills and Dungeoneering are pretty good for what they’re intended for. I think something like that would work well for things like crossbows; non-essential content that is nonetheless useful to learn. Besides Fletching and Runecrafting, Crafting sub-tutorials for pottery (for urns) and jewellery would also be useful.

On a different note, I wonder if the tutorial should have a quest-like feel to it. They could even make it a proper quest as was the case in past tutorials. That would kind of set up the expectation for doing quests and give players a sense of how they work. It would be nice if, during the tutorial, you would have somewhat meaningful interactions with NPCs. I like how this was done on Tutorial Island. You got a sense of each NPC’s personality and a hint of rivalry among them. It was realistic and personal. I think the proposed Ashdale tutorial as a prelude to A Shadow Over Ashdale would be a perfect opportunity to reintroduce this approach.

Under this scenario, Ashdale would pretty much be the “quest tutorial” with combat elements; Burthorpe could be used for creating equipment and learning more advanced combat; Lumbridge would introduce more quests and general exploring; and Varrock would introduce trade and social features.

The progression would be:

Ashdale > Burthorpe > Lumbridge > Varrock

That's basically the same order as the current situation. I guess the order wouldn’t need to be changed. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

22-Dec-2023 16:24:45 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2023 16:40:41 by Seasons Past

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I came up with a tutorial prequel to A Shadow Over Ashdale:

Sunrise Over Ashdale (tutorial quest)

1) Rise and Shine

The player wakes up in a house on Ashdale and hears someone calling from outside. The player is shown how to move their character and the camera. Once outside, Gudrik introduces himself and answers any questions.

2) Follow My Lead

Follow Gudrik down to the market, where villagers are selling their wares. During the usual morning banter, one of the vendors is notably absent. A villager approaches and asks you to deliver a parcel to the missing vendor’s house.

Knock on the door of the house. There is no answer. You then notice marks around the property, as if an animal has disturbed the area. While investigating, a seagull flies toward you and furiously attacks. The parcel tears open, causing a bottle inside to shatter. Attached to the bottle was a note reading, “Hope this helps. Get well soon. -Magda”.

Return to the villager at the market. She introduces herself as Magda the seer. A man had fallen ill, so his wife Lucy had asked her to prepare medicine to help him recover. Ask her how long he has been unwell. Magda replies that he began feeling under the weather about a week ago. His condition progressively worsened, causing him to be homebound for the last three days. When asked about symptoms, Magda says that they began with fatigue followed by fever. According to Lucy, he eventually started to hallucinate and fell unconscious. Lucy wanted to keep it a secret because she didn’t want to worry the town, as she believes his condition is serious and could spread.

Ask Magda more about Lucy’s husband. Magda tells you that he is a chef by profession. He likes creating his own recipes and especially loves seafood. Ask her if he ate anything unusual when he fell ill. She doesn’t know but thinks that the local fishermen might. She refers you to Hendrik at the pond. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

22-Dec-2023 20:01:58 - Last edited on 23-Dec-2023 00:26:42 by Seasons Past

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

3) Nobody Likes Crabs

Go to the pond at the top of the island and talk to Hendrik. Ask him about last week’s haul. Hendrik reports that the crew caught a few crabs in addition to the typical catch last week. The crew gave the crabs away, as they were especially feisty. He confirms that they gave one of the crabs to Lucy’s husband.

Report back to Magda. She tells you that it sounds like an especially nasty case of food poisoning, which her tincture should be able to cure. After admitting that the tincture broke, you are asked to find out if any other villagers ate the contaminated crab meat while she makes another potion.

Ask around the island to find out who else may have been poisoned. A villager took a crab but didn’t eat it; one crab crawled away before it could be cooked and eaten, while another was snatched up by seagulls.

Return to the market. The stalls are disheveled, and everyone’s gone except Gudrik. Ask him what happened. He says overgrown crabs dragged Magda away and scared everyone else off. He hid in a barrel to size up the new adversary without being spotted. He then tells you to meet him at the armoury.

Go to the armoury and talk to Gudrik again. He says you’ll need to prepare for combat and offers to give you a few pointers. The player is prompted to choose a weapon and complete a brief combat tutorial. You may choose either a bronze 2h sword, chargebow, or staff of air. After learning the basics, Gudrik says that you’ll need food to survive. He tells you to go back up to the pond and talk to Hendrik. Once you’’re ready, he’ll meet you in the church. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

22-Dec-2023 20:07:25 - Last edited on 23-Dec-2023 00:28:42 by Seasons Past

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