RuneScape Forum Archive | New Player Experience

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Not having too much to add for the social tutorial in varrock - it's certainly generic enough, it wouldn't start to age like milk in a few years.

I think an advanced combat tutorial (as you propose it in burthope) doesn't hurt, albeit I would not just recycle the stuff from the combat academy - it wasn't removed without a reason, it aged poorly and just no longer reflected the combat system at the time it was removed. It might help to focus about things players could want to know in combat (such as how to avoid things - yeah - basically what the arch glacor in normal mode was abused for). Probably also more mechanical stuff like armour types. Just what could be interesting for players to know. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

19-Dec-2023 15:52:49 - Last edited on 19-Dec-2023 16:01:17 by Rikornak

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Balkj06 said :
Dilbert2001 said :
Balkj06 said :
No it doesn't everything on the Burthorpe tutorial takes place in Buthope/Taverley.

Doric isn't a part of the path. His quest also isn't new player friendly why would it be on the path?

A meaningful story is a must. I do believe it would be best to just make a members questline such as the Chosen Commander instead of creating a new one.

Firemaking needs a new player quest. Those early FM levels aren't super fun when you have no logs.

You seemed to be confused with New Player Experience and Burthorpe tutorial. Burthrope is just a small part of the RS3 New Player Experience project. RS3 has far bigger plan and vision than just a tiny Burtorpe.

The Topic is the current Path System, which only takes place inside Burthorpe/Taverley the game doesn't take you outside that place until the end with the ship to Lumbridge.

What's the true end point after that? It doesn't matter.
The new player experience doesn't truly have a end. It's always ongoing.
I'm still haven't learn how to solve clue's for example.
There are some players who say Maxing is the tutorial so everything towards maxing falls under new player experience.

I'm don't think I am getting confused. I just using what the current in-game tutorial says is the tutorial. It ends with a in-game message after all.

Look the Path Achievement System carefully please. They send us all over different areas on Gielinor and not just Burthorpe and Taverly. For instance, there is an achievement explicitly called "To Lumbridge!", and there is also a "Dungeoneering" path definitely have us going to Daemonheim.

https://runescape.wiki/w/Achievement_Paths#To_Lumbridge!

New Player Experience don't just mean levels and xp neither.

19-Dec-2023 19:20:49

Balkj06

Posts: 240 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Sorry If I am being stubborn about all this.
But if we want to improve the system we need to know how the current system works.

I created a new character and checked in-game.

(Speaking on new player experience creating a new account is part of the new player experience.)
(Needing a Jagex Accounts just to try out the game is just to big of a hassle)

To unlock Dungeoneering must have completed the 2nd Section of the Tutorial

This is after section which gives the player the message they have finished the Tutorial and puts the player to the path to Lumbridge.

You can complete the path before Section 2. However.
1) You get no in-game progress messages until completion. (Thus you would have to know about it, before hand. Which isn't part of the new player experience)
2) The 1st step takes place within Taverley
3) The game tutorial itself does consider the Dungeoneering path to be part of Taverley. (If you read the ingame message it saids to explore Burthorpe /Taverley and all the paths you have just unlocked takes place within Burthorpe /Taverley.)

So, yes while you are correct that Daemonheimisn't part of Taverley.
I think my point still stands.
Which is.
The Tutorial keeps the player inside Burthorpe /Taverley.

Also the idea the other paths are part of the tutorial.. Well.
https://runescape.wiki/w/Achievement_Paths#Bossing
Noob, you have just arrived on Lumbridge. Don't do Cook's Assistant instead you should go and kill Zammy. You can do it!

I mention clues in my previous post. As it is content which doesn't require levels or skills and something I have not done on my main. To show the point the new player experience never ends. The Tutorial has a endpoint and we should use that.

Playing the Tutorial again during the Range section.
The player learns about Safe spots. (It doesn't do it very well.)
This is a runescape feature which is very important for the player to learn about.
It should be included in the proposed route.

20-Dec-2023 06:28:25

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

"What a good tutorial should have" is probably the most I've ever changed opinions. So I'm going to say some things that I may not believe a month from now, and as the game changes the obvious need for updating begins anew. Here's my earnest stab.

1. I would rather see the player instanced from the game world - or only able to see similarly new arrivals - until most-if-not-all features have been addressed by the tutorial.

I think the big problem with a "drop em in and let them swim" approach to RS3 is that things may be distracting. You send someone to Varrock on W3 and I'm not sure they're making it through Brugsen Burgson's spiel due to the hustle-and-bustle around them. On the other hand, the cutscene of an NPC feigning "getting scammed" is brilliant. If you -can- teach the hard life lessons without impacting a player negatively. You should.

2. Potential hot-take.

I prefer Tutorial Island/Ashdale's insular nature as opposed to Burthorpe or Lumbridge. The reason above (distraction) applies here, but also I think it allows RuneScape to sell its strongest suits.

I would use 'Shadow over Ashdale' as a "sequel" to a tutorial conflict in which the player learns about basic combat, how to stay alive, how to fight, how to engage with NPCs/in-game shops, and basic skilling. Perhaps this could be an "evacuation" of Ashdale as the Crassians launch their attack, and the player "comes back" to Ashdale in order to complete 'SoA' and provide closure to the island's story before it becomes obsolete for the remainder of the game.

What this achieves:

1. It establishes the player's narrative importance (Hello, future World-Guardian and Duke.)
2. It establishes basic survival skills.
3. It establishes the importance of combat - especially if you're going to stick the player in legacy mode at the start. (I don't ...hate it.... but I would need some explanation as to why!)

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed

- July 31st, 2022

20-Dec-2023 07:24:49 - Last edited on 20-Dec-2023 07:36:14 by H 1 L D A

Apr

2020

H 1 L D A

Posts: 1,666 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

So, you get through the narrative interlude on Ashdale! Now what?

1. Time to fix your user interface, says Gudrik right as you step off the boat.

>>> Seriously. with how much variance players' interfaces around the globe have, and how many features you can toggle on and off, I would think that after a rewarding narrative experience that provides some basics, a break should be taken to focus the eyes on the screen and prepare the player for a much longer RuneScape experience by setting their interface to their liking.

Yes, new player, RuneScape's interface is customizable, and there's a lot more under the hood than you realize. Bear with us. Rip off this band-aid now, and it will make your longer overall experience much better.

After fixing the interface, Gudrik can signpost players to Burthorpe for more pointers of combat, Lumbridge for quests, or Varrock for player-to-player interaction as you have suggested. He can also point out that each major hub in RuneScape has a lodestone, and that unlocking those stones is a great way to mitigate travel time.

Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed

- July 31st, 2022

20-Dec-2023 07:34:11

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@Balkj06

What you think about Burthorpe is hardly what Jagex's entire New Player Experience projects.

It is not hard to see that. Not only do new players have to leave Burthorpe to train Dungeoneering in Daemonheim, they have to go to City of Um for Necromancy, Varrock Digsite for Archaeology, Lumby Swamp for Divination, Gnome Stronghold for Agility etc etc etc.

It is extremely obvious Jagex's intension is for new players to go all over different locations for their diversified experience. It is also severely against the lore to have all kinds of DG, Necromancy, Archaeology, Divination, Agility content purposelessly stuffed into Burthorpe to make a silly abomination for the new players. It is simply not RS3, although you may see such crap in other trash games.

20-Dec-2023 17:17:51

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Balkj06 said :
Sorry If I am being stubborn about all this.
But if we want to improve the system we need to know how the current system works.

I created a new character and checked in-game.

(Speaking on new player experience creating a new account is part of the new player experience.)
(Needing a Jagex Accounts just to try out the game is just to big of a hassle)

To unlock Dungeoneering must have completed the 2nd Section of the Tutorial

This is after section which gives the player the message they have finished the Tutorial and puts the player to the path to Lumbridge.

You can complete the path before Section 2. However.
1) You get no in-game progress messages until completion. (Thus you would have to know about it, before hand. Which isn't part of the new player experience)
2) The 1st step takes place within Taverley
3) The game tutorial itself does consider the Dungeoneering path to be part of Taverley. (If you read the ingame message it saids to explore Burthorpe /Taverley and all the paths you have just unlocked takes place within Burthorpe /Taverley.)

So, yes while you are correct that Daemonheimisn't part of Taverley.
I think my point still stands.
Which is.
The Tutorial keeps the player inside Burthorpe /Taverley.

[...]

I mention clues in my previous post. As it is content which doesn't require levels or skills and something I have not done on my main. To show the point the new player experience never ends. The Tutorial has a endpoint and we should use that. I think that’s an important distinction. The tutorial is (and should be) more limited in scope than the new player experience. It is the part of the NPE that needs to include only the most critical gameplay for new players. The tutorial also has definite beginning and endpoints, unlike the larger NPE. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

21-Dec-2023 01:00:17

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Balkj06 said :
Also the idea the other paths are part of the tutorial.. Well.
https://runescape.wiki/w/Achievement_Paths#Bossing
Noob, you have just arrived on Lumbridge. Don't do Cook's Assistant instead you should go and kill Zammy. You can do it! From what I remember, the achievement path system after the Burthorpe paths is really not great for new players. There was way too much stuff in your face at once. It seemed designed for experienced players making new accounts, rather than new players.

I’ve made a note to check it out again for myself.
Balkj06 said :
Playing the Tutorial again during the Range section.
The player learns about Safe spots. (It doesn't do it very well.)
This is a runescape feature which is very important for the player to learn about.
It should be included in the proposed route Noted for future. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

21-Dec-2023 01:05:54

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@Rikornak

The reason I included Legacy combat was just to soften the learning curve. I set myself up to fail by including it in addition to normal combat. I concede that delaying learning RS3 combat wouldn’t help, as it will need to be learned during the tutorial anyway.

I personally question the need to have players fletch arrows during the tutorial. Most players probably don’t craft their own ammunition most of the time, and it’s readily available on the GE. Having players buy arrows from a shop during the tutorial would suffice. For Fletching training, bows are usually favored over arrows. Arrows are the fast/expensive method, while bows are slower but more affordable. I’d argue bows take priority and illustrate Fletching just as well.

Runecrafting was always awkward to include in the tutorial due to being constrained by the locations of altars. My best solution would be to include an optional Varrock path where players talk to Aubury, mine rune essence, and craft air runes. For mandatory tutorial content, a shop remains the way to go. It’s the same situation as arrows in that most players will end up buying the runes they intend to use rather than crafting them.

For the advanced combat section, I didn’t realize how out of sync the Combat Academy would be with the modern system. Translating the concept into a spiritual successor in Burthorpe is really what I was getting at. In terms of content, I think you have the same idea I have. It would be for learning mechanical fine details, at least from the perspective of a new player. Defence and Constitution abilities would certainly be covered there. Armour classifications would be good to include, as you suggested. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

21-Dec-2023 01:15:01

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

H 1 L D A said :
"What a good tutorial should have" is probably the most I've ever changed opinions. So I'm going to say some things that I may not believe a month from now, and as the game changes the obvious need for updating begins anew. Here's my earnest stab.

1. I would rather see the player instanced from the game world - or only able to see similarly new arrivals - until most-if-not-all features have been addressed by the tutorial.

I think the big problem with a "drop em in and let them swim" approach to RS3 is that things may be distracting. You send someone to Varrock on W3 and I'm not sure they're making it through Brugsen Burgson's spiel due to the hustle-and-bustle around them. On the other hand, the cutscene of an NPC feigning "getting scammed" is brilliant. If you -can- teach the hard life lessons without impacting a player negatively. You should.
[...] You’ve sold me on having the main tutorial take place on an island. That would allow all core elements (skills, combat, and story) to be packaged into one introduction free of distractions, which is the ideal scenario.

Having to unlock chat and trade by completing the Varrock section would prevent the worst-case-scenario of new players getting scammed by other players on the way to the tutorial about scamming. However, there is still a lot to be distracted by (such as dark wizards), even if other players are taken out of the equation. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

21-Dec-2023 01:53:43

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