RuneScape Forum Archive | Repeal the G.E. Tax Please!

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Original message details are unavailable.
So you're going to buy 10 bonds (worth what, 700m gp?), but can't cover a 6m gp price change. Okay.

I suggest you spend some time bossing or, if that's not your thing, skilling, to make up the difference. I mean, I'm making 2m just from one farming run a day, it's not that hard.

Very good suggestion.

20-Jan-2023 19:28:44

Jun

2022

Ruby_Red0

Posts: 188 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Ironman Community

Generates gps into the game by alching and selling to NPCs.

Barred from trading with players or using The Grand Exchange.

Does not pay any tax.

Does the Ironman Community have any appreciable coin sinks at all?

*it would be nice if the conversation on my thread could be allowed to maintain its context and focus. A general smooth flow of discussion would be cool too.
Thanks for everyone's anticipated cooperation.

New(ish) Player

:

This is YOUR world, and I'm just a squirrel tryin' to get a nut.

RS3: The game where RWTers are more important than Real Live Players

20-Jan-2023 19:32:18 - Last edited on 20-Jan-2023 19:36:44 by Ruby_Red0

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Original message details are unavailable.

Ironman Community

Generates gps into the game by alching and selling to NPCs.

Barred from trading with players or using The Grand Exchange.

Does not pay any tax.

Does the Ironman Community have any appreciable coin sinks at all?

*it would be nice if the conversation on my thread could be allowed to maintain its context and focus. A general smooth flow of discussion would be cool too.
Thanks for everyone's anticipated cooperation.

Of course IM are benefited by Death Cost Reduction.

20-Jan-2023 19:42:51

Dec

2021

Mel 624

Posts: 744 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Gold sinks for Ironman would give them more to do with their gp but it wouldn't really do anything for the general game economy so that's likely be lower priority. In terms of non GE tax inflation control, they should look at the circulation of non generated gold across different forms of content as well. If players are getting more income from circulating existing gp than generated gp, that would help address some of the economic issues as well. It'd also mean nerfs to generated gold sources wouldn't hit as hard as players wouldn't be as dependent on them to make money. There needs to be balance not only in the ratio of trade/generated gp profits in a given piece of content but also in the profitability of different skills and content in relation to eachother so there isn't one objectively better money making method everyone ends up doing.

Rebalancing PvM drops to reduce skilling supplies that devalue skilling is a work in progress but the alch drops should be examined as well. PvM shouldn't be as heavily reliant on alch drops to reduce gold generated both directly and indirectly from it.

They say they can't nerf the alch machines but I don't really see how they can't scale the conversion rate based on the value of the items put in so the gp/h remains stable. This would reduce the speed alch gp is being introduced without reducing their alch values. The limitations would also be specific to the problem gp generation of alch machines and only affect players who use them. A machine that automates alching for as long as you can keep it supplied is already convenient enough.

They really need to do something about bond prices. It's all good and nice that the higher they cost the more gold gets removed from converting them to tradable but they're over 70M now and steadily becoming unaffordable to most of the playerbase. How to block a forum user

Death And Taxes: An Analysis

20-Jan-2023 22:48:29

Jan

2011

Roddy Piper

Posts: 13,751 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

"Rebalancing PvM drops to reduce skilling supplies that devalue skilling is a work in progress but the alch drops should be examined as well."

There is a lot of generalizing about skilling, but crafting is an example of a skill that can make decent profit based on PVM drops. I wanted to gain a level of crafting recently and I was amazed by the prices, and this was during BXP. All of those materials end up in the alch machines eventually and I am guessing the 'skiller' is the one who actually does it.

Also, bossing isn't automatic guaranteed profit. I am guessing if I actually kept track I am losing money more often than not. TBH I waste a lot of resources on combat because I gather them for my own use, and not to sell.

But if I actually sold those supplies it seems pretty easy to gain money. Not at the top rate, which is reserved for more difficult activities. But solid and steady.

20-Jan-2023 23:57:27

Jun

2022

Ruby_Red0

Posts: 188 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Mel,

I dont agree. In the 'Diary' Kitten linked, the JMod gave the example of a player alching Hazelmere's Signet Ring and generating 300,000 gps into the game.

Who in their right mind, other than someone who is barred from trade with players/GE, is going to do that? Thats not regular Bossing trash, and if a regular player that already had a Hazelmere's Signet Ring got one as a drop he would sell it before he ever alched it for a mere 300K gps.

Sure, it could have been a stupid choice for an example, but I dont think it is. JMods may be many things but 'issue-specific challenged' isnt one of them.

They need coin sinks for Ironman. It cant be viewed as fair that they have neither coin sinks nor a tax liablity like every other player has.

Bonds are a cash item. Availability is more of a problem than anything right now. People will pay whatever. Ive seen then begging for them at the GE and offering more than 80M but no one comes forth to trade.

We are in a game where people put up billions of gps for an item, so 80M for a bond is really peanuts, and a bond is tangible. Meaning you cant lose it. You buy what your buying - usually 14 days membership for most, and thats it it. Real value for only 80M in pixelated gps. On the other hand, it doesnt matter what they offer if no one has bought any for resale.

Anyone that does buy for resale is going to want the most bang for their buck. Of course, if Jagex lowered their price for bonds, but I dont really see that happening, I doubt you do either.

Im sure for the most part you know what you are talking about. You are pretty impressive with knowledge as well as others on the anti-skiller tax thread. Jil L comes to mind. I remember being impressed with her posts as well.

Im tired at this point. Kinda dishearted. May will be renewal time for me, and I will reassess my own gameplay then.

Ciao bella!

New(ish) Player

:

This is YOUR world, and I'm just a squirrel tryin' to get a nut.

RS3: The game where RWTers are more important than Real Live Players

21-Jan-2023 00:10:33

Dec

2021

Mel 624

Posts: 744 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@Piper

They'd have to break down the calculations to really lay out how much of the alched items are coming from where. There's a serious lack of detail on the alchemy stats for something that's such a big source of gold generation and the way it's categorized relative to PvM. Given the tax is directly related to the death costs reduction, it feels disingenuous. Did they have to reduce the costs as much as they did? Did they consider how this would look to a playerbase increasingly resentful of how PvM is treated relative to other content? Given the issues people are having with it, it seems like more testing and feedback was needed.

@Ruby

Ironman can't trade with other players, which makes them their own self contained economic bubble independent from the actual player economy. They should be considered in that their gold generation/loss ratio shouldn't be included in the calculations about the inflation problem they're trying to solve. Doing so would distort the results in a way that doesn't accurately reflect the actual economic situation.

The Death Costs and GE tax post makes no mention of ironman to clarify whether or not this was done, which is one of my concerns about the accuracy of the stats being used to justify the tax.

I brought up bonds because the bond tax is a gold sink that relies on people actually being able to buy them from other players and the GE tax currently applies to them, which isn't helping their overinflated prices at all. 72M for 14 days of membership and even if you go the full premium that's currently close to 1.5B, which is utterly ridiculous. Some people have the kind of money for that but most people don't. It's also a pretty big increase since even a year ago. They don't necessarily have to change the IRL prices so much as stabilize their role in the in game economy. For one thing, maybe bring them down to 15 for a year or bring back smaller premium rates. How to block a forum user

Death And Taxes: An Analysis

21-Jan-2023 03:32:51

Jan

2011

Roddy Piper

Posts: 13,751 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I made a thread to warn the players about this all back in September. At that point there was going to be a poll, as mentioned in a July 15 blog:

We'll also be asking you to share your views soon, so keep your eye out for an upcoming poll and have your voice heard!

As far as I know that never happened.

The recent news post announcing the update was some convenient one sided Public Relations. TBH I think they did a great job with that. They were working on this whole thing for about a year, so it's not likely to go away.

IMO the bottom line with this game is we can grind all day every day. Combat or skills. But you aren't getting anywhere without some sort of 'jackpot' item. Something that other players will overpay for.

21-Jan-2023 04:05:03

Jun

2022

Ruby_Red0

Posts: 188 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Okay, you made me look!

@ Mel,

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I wasnt following your thoughts properly. I totally agree with the effect on game statistics. How can an economic bubble not have an effect on game statistics?

I also totally agree with the effect on player perception.

Disingenuous

, thats a stellar choice of words.

The Bond issue is different. I agree the GE tax will only make the price wanted for them higher, and that will leave many players unable to afford them if available.

The only thing that will lower that price, aside from removing the GE tax, is a healthy competition amongst people that buy them for resale. I might want 90M if Im the only one selling, but like anything else, Im going to want to move them and if others are selling them cheaper I will have to lower my price to make my bonds competitive in the market.

Limiting them would cut into potential business profits, and just like memberships, Jagex is going to want to sell as many as they can.

@Piper

Thanks for your input. There are a number of reasons they wouldnt want to follow through with the poll, but for me to get into those might end up with this post sounding more like a rant.

I will say that not following through with an ingame poll only adds polish to any notions of disregard for the overall playerbase, and fosters the concept of

disingenous

activity at foot.

New(ish) Player

:

This is YOUR world, and I'm just a squirrel tryin' to get a nut.

RS3: The game where RWTers are more important than Real Live Players

21-Jan-2023 15:20:13 - Last edited on 21-Jan-2023 16:22:46 by Ruby_Red0

Jun

2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Original message details are unavailable.
Gold sinks for Ironman would give them more to do with their gp but it wouldn't really do anything for the general game economy so that's likely be lower priority.

Correct, and more so IM care more about more gp sources than sinks before the death cost reduction and GE tax updates.

It was actually IM like TheRSGuy complained about not getting enough gp to offset death cost which sparked the whole balance of death cost and GE Tax project.

This update on the economy most certainly benefit IM. I don't see why some players wilfully ignore the Death Cost Reduction part and pretend IM are hurt by the GE tax.

21-Jan-2023 16:58:11

Forums

Repeal the G.E. Tax Please!