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Inferi

Inferi

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That's kinda an invalid argument, seeing as how I stated above that I meant it as a joke.

You're not getting the point. If the Wardens somehow can't figure out who is fit to command when the one in command is no longer available, then they literally need someone to come in and change something. Not having a line of succession is a very clear indicator that an organization is doomed to failure, and the best chance for them to stay strong is to figure out this shit now rather than when it actually matters.

Seriously, relying entirely on ONE PERSON to make sure they stay afloat is an absolutely terrible idea. You cannot survive if that is what you are trying to do, because, should that person go down, you're just dead. It is not sustainable and needs to be fixed, and if someone isn't willing to do it when they don't need to, the best option is to make sure they DO need to. If they fail, then it proves everyone was doomed anyways.



I personally don't find that Cassandra is glossed over any more than anyone else, and I don't agree at all that she has little depth. I suspect this'll just be a circular argument, though, since it's entirely a matter of opinion. Done in by the dubious doings of destiny.

11-Jun-2018 23:28:54

Westenev

Westenev

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NotFishing said :
Inferi said :

and if they're so useless that losing a single person will utterly deprive them of leadership I say Hawke is still the more useful one to have around.


Having only one leader left doesn't automatically make them useless.

Also, it's not just about what they can do for you. It's also about what you can do for them. Remember, the Wardens need to stay strong they can stop the Blights. Leaving them without leadership does not help in that regard.

The Fifth blight shows that a warden is needed to end the blight, not combat it. To that end, the organisation is only needed to produce grey wardens, not lead them.
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11-Jun-2018 23:31:16

NotFishing

NotFishing

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Westenev said :

Who's to say a Warden stops a blight rather than delays it or makes it worse? It's a pretty big assumption.


Because they are the only people who can permanently kill an Archdemon, which is where the Blight comes from.

Westenev said :

It's always possible the Warden-Commander will come back to lead the Wardens once they finish their mission.


Nope, you're the Warden-Commander of Fereldan. Orlais is outside of your jurisdiction. Both Loghain and Alistair were only stationed there due to political reasons. Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

11-Jun-2018 23:32:45

NotFishing

NotFishing

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Inferi said :

You're not getting the point. If the Wardens somehow can't figure out who is fit to command when the one in command is no longer available, then they literally need someone to come in and change something. Not having a line of succession is a very clear indicator that an organization is doomed to failure


You're missing the point. They do have a line of succession. It's just that everyone in that line of succession is dead. Many of them were mages mind controlled by Erimond. Others were sacrificed. Others were killed in your attack, or by the archdemon, or by the demons.

No one made the decision to go "Oh, let's have only one leader, and if that leader dies there is no clear successor." They had a line of succession, they had a chain of command, and it was killed off. It will take time to restore that chain of command, but it will be a much smoother process if at least one person in it is still alive.

Inferi said :

and the best chance for them to stay strong is to figure out this shit now rather than when it actually matters.


Which is why they need a leader who can promote people to fill empty positions, organize the recruiting efforts, and appeal to Weisshaupt for support.

Inferi said :

Seriously, relying entirely on ONE PERSON to make sure they stay afloat is an absolutely terrible idea.


Still infinitely better than just having no leader at all.

Also why do you think it's permanent?

Westenev said :

The Fifth blight shows that a warden is needed to end the blight, not combat it. To that end, the organisation is only needed to produce grey wardens, not lead them.


The Wardens need to lead it because they have the most knowledge and experience. And they cannot share this knowledge, because the rest of the world will not accept it. Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

11-Jun-2018 23:42:23

Westenev

Westenev

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NotFishing said :
Westenev said :

Who's to say a Warden stops a blight rather than delays it or makes it worse? It's a pretty big assumption.


Because they are the only people who can permanently kill an Archdemon, which is where the Blight comes from.

I don't know, the game does hint that something might be going on behind the scenes. After Morigan's ritual, who is to say the archdemons just pop up somewhere else in another form? After all, the idea that Archdemons simply evaporate is simply guesswork; nobody can prove it.


NotFishing said :
Westenev said :

It's always possible the Warden-Commander will come back to lead the Wardens once they finish their mission.


Nope, you're the Warden-Commander of Fereldan. Orlais is outside of your jurisdiction. Both Loghain and Alistair were only stationed there due to political reasons.

Time for a promotion then? Warden-Commander of Southern Theadas has a nice ring to it.

The Grey Wardens don't belong to any single race or nation; they exist soley to fight the blight. This blatently isn't true, but anyone who says otherwise risks looking tyranical, which is why I dislike the idea of banishing the Grey Wardens myself.




EDIT: Awkward question, but what is the average height where you guys live? I mean, I just read through the appearances on Trails, and everyone is like the hulk.
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11-Jun-2018 23:44:36 - Last edited on 11-Jun-2018 23:53:50 by Westenev

NotFishing

NotFishing

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Westenev said :

EDIT: Awkward question, but what is the average height where you guys live? I mean, I just read through the appearances on Trails, and everyone is like the hulk.


I play tall characters because I'm very tall myself - six foot six. Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

11-Jun-2018 23:55:22

Inferi

Inferi

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Maybe they should try to share it again, then. There's always someone in the world that will accept it, and at this point I really don't think they have anything to lose by doing so.

If they haven't done that already, they're taking too long. Inquisition is multiple years after the blight in Ferelden, and they've had plenty of time to get their shit in order. I stand by my point that they haven't done nearly enough to safeguard their organization, and I really don't think whoever is there at the present moment is going to accomplish that.

It's permenant, at least as long as the situation remains stagnated, because it hasn't happened yet. Gray Wardens, particularly in the current situational standing, should not have to worry about bureaucratic nightmares, and they should be able to get stuff done fairly well. The fact that they haven't tells me that they aren't being effective.

Is the best solution to kill them? No, not in the slightest. However, I don't believe that a single Warden that hasn't established an effective chain of command in about 3 years is worth Hawke.

I won't deny that my decision also comes from the fact that they did nothing to make Stroud worth anything to me, while Hawke is one of my favorites both because she is the epitome of a hero and because she was my protagonist of DA2.


I usually just google average height and then make my characters a little taller or shorter depending on what I have in mind. I'm about six feet tall, myself. Done in by the dubious doings of destiny.

12-Jun-2018 00:09:26 - Last edited on 12-Jun-2018 00:09:54 by Inferi

Westenev

Westenev

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EDIT: That's a bit unfair though - Alistair/Stroud/Logain lacked the seniority to openly act against the Warden-Commander of Orleis, who they rightly suspected of corruption. They were painted as an upstart, so their name was essentially mud.



Personally, when I get confused, I take out a tape measure. It's easier for me to base height off other people I know, so you can understand my confusion when your characters are a full head taller than I am.
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12-Jun-2018 00:11:47 - Last edited on 12-Jun-2018 00:20:14 by Westenev

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