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NotFishing

NotFishing

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Now, here is the question I am trying to raise: were Arran and Soahc working together somehow? If Arran was an agent of Soahc, he'd likely jump at the chance to lead a revolution against Tyrrus and Janus, and would also happily absorb Soahc's godhood so that his lord could return to the mortal world while he would become a god himself. In this scenario, Arran is definitely a bad guy. So why did he give Annie demi-god powers? Maybe because he thought giving a child god powers would lead to chaotic decisions like freeing Azul, or maybe it has something to do with Soahc's scheme? Remember: Annie's power originally comes from Soahc.

If Arran was simply power hungry (let's face it, a lot of famous leaders who led freedom struggles were just in it for power), then I can also see him working with Soahc in some way and gladly accepting godhood because... well, he gets to become a god. Also I would like to point out that Arran's ultimate plan is now to ditch his godhood and return more powerful than he was as a mortal - but why? Even when he was a god himself, he couldn't beat the gods. So maybe he's tired of floating in space, and now seeks to return to Engelain, gather his followers, and start a new empire or something?

And if Arran truly was an idealist who believed the gods were evil, maybe he simply worked with Soahc out of necessity. If Arran truly hated the idea of gods ruling over mortals (which they weren't even doing really; Janus had sealed them away) maybe he might view the God of Anarchy as a lesser evil than the God of Order, because at least Anarchy still allows Freedom. Then he could have accepted godhood because he believed it was the best way to fight the gods... only to fail. In this scenario, Arran has good intentions but is just irresponsible*

In summary: Arran is either an evil *******, an opportunistic jerk, or a well-meaning idiot.
Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

16-May-2016 00:49:38 - Last edited on 16-May-2016 00:51:55 by NotFishing

NotFishing

NotFishing

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Inferi said :
NotFishing said :
a well-meaning idiot.


I present exhibit A: the obvious thing.


Well yeah, but that's no fun.

I prefer stories that happened because a bunch of people manipulated each other over stories that happened because a bunch of people made mistakes.

I mean think about it: why did Arran get so angry over something that happened hundreds of years before he was born? So much so that he rose up and started a rebellion?
Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

16-May-2016 00:56:39 - Last edited on 16-May-2016 01:09:35 by NotFishing

NotFishing

NotFishing

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And another thing: Why did Soahc offload his Godhood onto Arran in particular? Why didn't he offload his godhood onto some incompetent scrub the moment Janus banished him? Or why didn't he just offload it onto one of Arran's trusted followers who shared Arran's ideals? That way you have your god of freedom, but you also have Arran in the mortal world continuing to stir up anti-god sentiment.

The answer: Soahc and Arran came to some sort of arrangement that both parties were satisfied with.
Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

16-May-2016 01:04:23 - Last edited on 16-May-2016 01:06:36 by NotFishing

D F Angel

D F Angel

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NotFishing said :
So I decided to revisit the religion section of Into the Fire, to see if there were any clues and also refresh myself on the lore.


Smart move.

NotFishing said :
I have to say that Arran is a bit of an idiot here. I mean, the war ended hundreds of years ago, things were peaceful, and suddenly Arran appears and gets angry over a conflict that resolved way before he was born?


The idea is more that even with the gods physically banished from **gelain, they could still enact their will in other ways, and millions have been killed in the name of religion. Arran wanted to abolish all religious institutions whatsoever, destroy the pillars by which the gods hold sway on the planet.

NotFishing said :
Now this begs the question: can you force godhood on someone else in this universe? Did Arran accept godhood willingly, from Soahc no less, despite his hatred of gods? Maybe he didn't know he would be sealed away, or maybe he thought he could take on Janus. I mean, this is the same guy who handed god powers to a ten year old girl. He is clearly not the most responsible individual.


Now this is the sort of thinking I like to see!

The story goes that Soahc forced godhood upon Arran, though Soahc himself has stated in ITF that he simply overloaded Arran with energy and killed him, and that everyone worshipping Arran is wasting their time on someone who died four centuries ago.

Arran taking on the mantle of godhood despite his hatred of the gods is interesting to think upon too. Even if we take the current narrative that Arran became a god unwillingly, in the end he is still a god, so what does a godless man do when he is made into the thing which he hates?

And taking on Janus... I believe many would sympathise with such a cause. You could be onto something there.
Hags be hagglin', gods be god damn crazy, it's all happening ogre at Into The Fire

16-May-2016 01:10:00

D F Angel

D F Angel

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NotFishing said :
And real life history has shown time and time again that humans are always willing to fight against oppression if you give them someone to rally behind. That someone was Arran. He got a bunch of humans to believe that the gods were tyrants, and it is most likely that other humans disagreed with him, so there's your conflict.


Arran the man did have a lot of opposition- mostly in the form of the Tyrannian Empire. Arran liberated the Seven States of Eastern Engelain from the Empire's rule, and followed up that momentum by launching an attack against the Empire, which was already weakened from having lost the now-Free Kingdoms of Engelain a few centuries earlier, (with many fruitless wars trying to retake them.) So yes, there was great conflict at the time, and most likely internally in the 'pro-Arran' lands as well.

NotFishing said :
Now, here is the question I am trying to raise: were Arran and Soahc working together somehow? If Arran was an agent of Soahc, he'd likely jump at the chance to lead a revolution against Tyrrus and Janus, and would also happily absorb Soahc's godhood so that his lord could return to the mortal world while he would become a god himself. In this scenario, Arran is definitely a bad guy. So why did he give Annie demi-god powers? Maybe because he thought giving a child god powers would lead to chaotic decisions like freeing Azul, or maybe it has something to do with Soahc's scheme? Remember: Annie's power originally comes from Soahc.


I do love this.
Hags be hagglin', gods be god damn crazy, it's all happening ogre at Into The Fire

16-May-2016 01:10:06

D F Angel

D F Angel

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NotFishing said :
Also I would like to point out that Arran's ultimate plan is now to ditch his godhood and return more powerful than he was as a mortal - but why? Even when he was a god himself, he couldn't beat the gods. So maybe he's tired of floating in space, and now seeks to return to Engelain, gather his followers, and start a new empire or something?


I do believe that you are on the cusp of an important revelation. You're certainly asking very profound and important questions, when it comes to the lore of the setting. Also props for having paid attention and knowing that Arran is attempting to return, (although I have a sneak feeling that I probably included this somewhere in the information in the first three pages, rather than you reading subtext.)

NotFishing said :
Then he could have accepted godhood because he believed it was the best way to fight the gods... only to fail. In this scenario, Arran has good intentions but is just irresponsible*


I think Arran being idealistic but idiotic shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. :P Of course, Arran 'accepting' godhood would go against the narrative that the likes of Abraxus Richardson, the self-proclaimed High Priest of Arran, (the likes of The Unified Church don't have a Grand Priest of Arran for the sole purpose that supposedly Arran refuses worship, which means the Unified Church rogue that is Abraxus could in fact be fraudulent, as it's widely believed Arran does not answer prayers,) who say that Arran hates everything about godhood and would rather die than become a god, and therefore his ascension is a fate worse than death.

Of course, narrative and truth don't often go hand in hand.



All in all, good work Lasky. I'm glad that you are taking a critical approach to the things that I have written. There are certainly twisted truths abound and perhaps some hints as well, and I appreciate you getting involved with the lore.
Hags be hagglin', gods be god damn crazy, it's all happening ogre at Into The Fire

16-May-2016 01:10:11

D F Angel

D F Angel

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NotFishing said :
And another thing: Why did Soahc offload his Godhood onto Arran in particular? Why didn't he offload his godhood onto some incompetent scrub the moment Janus banished him? Or why didn't he just offload it onto one of Arran's trusted followers who shared Arran's ideals? That way you have your god of freedom, but you also have Arran in the mortal world continuing to stir up anti-god sentiment.

The answer: Soahc and Arran came to some sort of arrangement that both parties were satisfied with.


Something that isn't included in the history section of the thread but probably should is that in the centuries through which Soahc was banished, he first imbued his loyal subjects with powers/gifts/visions etc., but found that ineffective and went onto advising his followers in how to create totems through which Soahc could enter the world in a less-powerful state; essentially what Arran did with Annie but with an inanimate object, and with Soahc having full control over the totem through which he was being channelled.

Why Soahc chose Arran in particular, and after so long, is rightfully up for speculation. Maybe Brodus should ask him?
Hags be hagglin', gods be god damn crazy, it's all happening ogre at Into The Fire

16-May-2016 01:15:03

NotFishing

NotFishing

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D F Angel said :
Maybe Brodus should ask him?


...

...

...I actually never even considered that. Why didn't I think of that? He is literally a (somewhat unreliable) primary source!

Edit: I mean, that's literally like God visiting Earth and everybody forgetting to ask him how much of the Bible is actually real.
Beneath the gold, the Bitter Steel.

16-May-2016 01:20:01 - Last edited on 16-May-2016 01:22:37 by NotFishing

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