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Rondstat

Rondstat

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@plucky9, those are some very interesting thoughts. I suppose dagganoth, Hydra, basilisks do all have some draconic features, and it would be very compelling if Dragonkin research turned out to extend far beyond the dragons we know of. While Kerapac and his six cohorts only developed dragon research for a century, it doesn't mean one of them couldn't have gone back and tried to develop other creatures elsewhere. I do agree that it makes more sense for things like poison breath to come from the breeding stock, and not any sort of Kin magic.

You know, the standard interpretation of V- is that the SoJ evolved him from a neanderthal, but when I did WGS, I just assumed he was some sort of hunchback who was made to walk upright. I don't know if that would have any bearing on this discussion.

That's a good catch on the bane ammo. Bane is still so mysterious, and we have no clue as to its origins. I'm not even sure if the limited number of affected monsters is lorefully all that bane can tune against, or if it's just a game mechanic. Perhaps those are the creatures Mage Etheron encountered on his journey to ***linor, and the only ones the Kethsian anvils are attuned to? Mod Stu has teased some concept art on his twitter that I think might tie in to bane weaponry, which would give us some answers.

14-Mar-2015 20:26:32

Plucky9
Sep Member 2005

Plucky9

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My thought is that Jas just transplanted immortality onto the Dragonkin, because it fits in with what her "power" would normally be. Ful is Consistency which is shown with the Tok/TzHaar becoming progressively more consistent in the creation of planets.

The Elder Gods considers anything above basic/primordial life to be mistakes, so if any planets' inhabitants did become sapient, the Dragonkin would be there to artificially stern back technological improvements or outright planetary extinction. so grass, worms and lizards is probably ok. monkeys may possibly be stretching it, however Humans, Goblins, Aviantese and so forth would be destructive. to the point, the Vyrewatch would've remained bestial pack-hunters if Zaros didn't came to Vamp**ium with a basic understanding of taskforcing and laws.


Indirectly, it's not like Jas would've known that the Dragonkin were still desperately after her blood even after the current universe was created. so she didn't anticipate that her curse on them would have affected their alchemic offspring. in V's case, his production art was just "Neathenderthal", but he simply channeled the energy into unlocking potential that humanity could have.


I think the potential behind the Bane Ore spell is that the Kethsians might have personally used the Stone to create the method in creating the spell. or that the Mage Enclave's usage of the Stone ascended the Kethsians as a race. since they wasn't gods, their collective use enraged the Dragonkin much more faster. whilst the Lunar Clan had the benefit of Utilizing the remnants of the Stone of Jas' energy from the fairy portal network (the moon!) when Guthix made the Gate of Life.

The Lunar Clan on the other hand had no desire in raising conditions, their primal lifestyle resulted in them electing for the "wizened ascendant shaman" approach, their spells are more on the magical side of creation rather than outright Alchemy. like baking pies, humidification and...destroying poison/disease.

14-Mar-2015 22:18:16

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

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Random rambles:

Daemonheim specifically refers to the dungeons created by Bilrach, and is a name used only by the Fremennik, first coined in 5.169. Colloquially, it's also used to refer to the entire peninsula. For practical purposes, however, the Dragonkin castle and Kerapac's laboratories shouldn't be called Daemonheim and I certainly wouldn't call Kerapac its master. The similarity in appearance between his labs and Bill's dungeon is probably a coincidence (i.e. OoaK had a low graphics budget so they copy-pasted warped floors).

The Consortium of Extra-Planar Merchandise Transferral Specialists exists. Probably something to consider.

Might also be worthwhile to note that frost dragons are located in the same place where the animated remains of wyverns walk. Odd, because the resource dungeon is clearly Bil**chian, but there are frost dragons in Daemonheim. Brought there by Bill, or escaped from Kerapac's labs and captured by the *ahjarrat?

According to Mod Srowl*y, Movario's "evil bird spirits of the east" aren't Dragonkin. This is strange, seeing that they are from the east and resemble a vulture and lizard hybrid.

Of course, there is this:
Original message details are unavailable.
[Oz****] continued: "As well as steel dragons there are mithril dragons. Now, if we consider that this progresses through all the metals, to adamant dragons and rune dragons…"

I could see where Ozia** was going with this.

"…then eventually, somewhere in RuneScape there must be a dragon dragon!"

DEAR ZAMORAK! Can you imagine the POWER I would have with a dragon dragon? I would use it to cook EVIL STEW whenever I wanted and fly to the shops in a matter of seconds! Of course, that's less a theory and more a CATACLYSMIC PLAN OF SUPER-DOMINATION!
Imagine - the dragon dragon. The dactyl's final experiment; infusing their failed pseudo-offspring with their metal of old. Where would they be, if anywhere, and...what would they be capable of?


Oh, and, excellent read. Kudos! Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

15-Mar-2015 18:29:07 - Last edited on 15-Mar-2015 18:41:14 by Lord Drakan

Plucky9
Sep Member 2005

Plucky9

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If there's Dragon Dragons. chances are they might not have been created yet. the earliest known Dragon weaponry we've seen was at Freneskae, but even before Muspah's dropping Dragon Wards/Knives/Hastas, the weapon trader in Zanaris said that it came fresh from Freneskae.

Though the Muspah naturally drops the weapons, either alluding to that the metal is created by Elder Gods directly, or it simply had primordial metal from a now-destroyed previous universe. though there's nothing that could forge the metal together except for the Dragon forge on Gielinor. so would the Dragonkin even have purposed Dragon metals for weapons? it could justify how the rage-inducing effects on Tormented Demons work; since their bodies has metal chunks either embedded or fused together.


There's also the potential for remnants of metals located "outside" the Abyss, if the whole Hostilius' body holding the rift thing is real, the Abyss should technically compose of the old universes being destroyed or as a reference point/graveyard for the Elder God's previous creations, but has to be some relevance in the Prehistoric Abyssal. how would things like the Dragon Square Shield break despite being forged normally...whilst Dragon metal shards has to be blast-forged together into a Platebody?

Barring any retcons, which explains Sq being plain smithed. and Platebody being forged together.

15-Mar-2015 19:47:19

Penny Drakis

Penny Drakis

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About the Drakkerkin/Mahjarrat writing system -- some of the writing on the strange machinery in the Pollnivneach looks like Drakkerkin, but some doesn't. It might be symbols we haven't seen yet or symbols from newer languages. Does anyone want to check it out in person to verify I am not just seeing things?

Were the symbols used in Zamorak's camp during BoL the most we have seen of actual written Mahjarrat? Humility is self-destruction, pride is the destruction of all else. And He said, "
Let there be light.
"
And then there were none .

16-Mar-2015 20:41:23

Rondstat

Rondstat

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Nice catch, Penny. I had forgotten about all the ritual circles. You know, I had originally taken their design as a clue that they were a means for humans to perform Mahjarrat magic (I think the first use of this design was in the Slayer Tower update), but now they've just become sort of generic env features. I'm not a member at the moment, but I'll be renewing at the end of this month, so I'll definitely check out the smoke dungeon.

@ Drakan, indeed Daemonheim is a new name, but so is Rimmington, Brimhaven, etc. I see nothing wrong with using the most conventional title, especially when we don't really have an alternative. Random eastern peninsula castle?

1oak retconned a lot of Daemonheim lore, specifically its construction by Bilrach. The FAQ confirms it outright, but even in the quest, Kerapac implies that he has the power to control the randomization of the dungeons. Bilrach has been established as an unreliable narrator, and really, now that we've seen how odd and nearly unhinged he is, I think it fits. As I understand it, Bill excavated, furnished, and built up individual rooms, out of derelict existing dungeons.

And regarding the resource dungeons - I'm not sure we have a reliable way of telling who built what. Bilrach adopted a Dragonkin symbol from the original castle as his own, so the entry isn't much of a clue.

Ah, I missed that Rowl*y quote - so was Movario just looking at sky orphans? And the Consortium of whatnow? Or do you just mean Hearthen? Now THAT'S a big mystery I'd like to see answered. Anyways, thank you so much for your feedback! I'm glad you liked the thread.

@Plucky9, It's an interesting thought that the Kin could have been used to cull life. I'd just assumed that evolution didn't really kick in on any planets that produced sapience until the Elders left. Your thought makes me wonder if the Catalyst could have ever been put in mortal hands on purpose.

Thanks all!

16-Mar-2015 23:02:08

Plucky9
Sep Member 2005

Plucky9

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There was probably little reason why the other Elder Artifacts would have drawbacks as dire as the Stone of Jas, other than the fact that the Stone of Jas is the unhatched egg of Jas herself. other than the Staff, Horn and the Stone, they were the last elder artifacts used by the elder gods before they fell to sleep. they were the Artifacts Guthix found though. so he probably wasn't aware of the Elder Kiln. Gielinor was technically empty other than basic lifeforms and 4 Elder Artifacts.

The other elder artifacts are usually left on "failed" worlds, so the fact that Gods spawn there at all is miraculous. Armadyl himself apparently ascended with a yet to be mentioned artifact on Abbinah (alluded to in world event 2). The Measure being on Freneskae....and is pretty weak by elder artifact status.

I'd like to think that some gods required external forces into ascending with an artifact, like Terragard has the Rift; which the planet itself has magic siphoned and stored. whilst Abbinah is mostly floating islands, torturous conditions in between them and the water...maybe possibly something else down there if the Rite of Passage means anything.

Guthix stabbed a god with the Elder Sword...and the energy simply went into him, then he used the Sword to go further and gain more power. luckily he channeled the stone of Jas and rerouted Anima rather than absorbing it upfront. oddly an artifact might not be required, since Bandos just outright killed a near-incapacitated god.

Maimbo and Brassica Prime are lower tiered, maybe magical creatures with power/intelligence.

Not that the Stone was intended to be utilized as a tool per se, I'd probably be more suspicious about the Crown Archival. since not only it can detect other artifacts, but the Elder Gods can detect the Crown as a natural ability. so the fact that they could possibly sense them moving would mean either planets are being blown up, or sapient life has evolved far enough to see out artifacts.

17-Mar-2015 03:31:24

Rondstat

Rondstat

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Plucky9 said :
Not that the Stone was intended to be utilized as a tool per se, I'd probably be more suspicious about the Crown Archival. since not only it can detect other artifacts, but the Elder Gods can detect the Crown as a natural ability. so the fact that they could possibly sense them moving would mean either planets are being blown up, or sapient life has evolved far enough to see out artifacts.

Now this is a very interesting point.

I'm still wondering about the timeline. Perhaps the vast majority of the history of the multiverse is simply the Elders pacing about the void, and sapient life has only existed for a fraction of a percent at the end. Supposedly gnomes, monkeys, and humans share a common ancient ancestor. Perhaps the Elders had already created ***linor and slept for countless millenia before the first sapient creature ever evolved on Vamp**ium or Infernus.

Because I can't imagine they'd knowingly let a lesser being wield the Crown. Or any other artefact for that matter.

19-Mar-2015 18:44:30

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