RuneScape Forum Archive | Your antithesis god?

Chaos Lupus

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Hazeel said :
Chaos Lupus said :
Besides, you can't force loyalty,

Funny, I recall saying that to Zaros in the second age....he just laughed and told me to conquer some more villages.

That'd be unintentional brainwashing.

The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

01-Nov-2016 17:41:47

Ancient Drew

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^ About the memoriam crystals for Zaros, he said himself that he was born with an aura ability that causes anyone near him to become loyal to him. This effect only happens in a certain perimeter, however, and it dissipates with time. He even says himself,

"I find the idea of coercing a mind to be...distasteful."

He practically left the Empire alone after Tumeken blew himself up, and noted that his followers were loyal and spread his ideals of their own accord afterwards. They could have left on their own and did something different, like the Zamorakians in the Empire did, but there were genuinely loyal followers around who hadn't been affected by this aura for ages. He forced a lot due to the ability, but there were quite a few who wanted to support Zaros anyway. Prepare for hell on RuneScape in Naval Cataclysm!

Pokemon battle? Friend Code: 4614-0426-2439

01-Nov-2016 17:42:18

Chaos Lupus

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@ Socrateus

1.) Now you're just twisting words. By your logic, anything anyone intentionally does ever is forcing something. There's clearly a difference between "forcing" power into existence and forcing someone into slavery.

2.) Yes, I have. And as we've seen, it's not actually loyalty, it's a temporary form of brainwashing. Hence the whole rebellion thing.

3.) Force into servitude=enslave.

That's not loyalty, that's fear of punishment.

The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

01-Nov-2016 17:49:06

Chaos Lupus

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Ancient Drew said :
^ About the memoriam crystals for Zaros, he said himself that he was born with an aura ability that causes anyone near him to become loyal to him. This effect only happens in a certain perimeter, however, and it dissipates with time. He even says himself,

"I find the idea of coercing a mind to be...distasteful."

He practically left the Empire alone after Tumeken blew himself up, and noted that his followers were loyal and spread his ideals of their own accord afterwards. They could have left on their own and did something different, like the Zamorakians in the Empire did, but there were genuinely loyal followers around who hadn't been affected by this aura for ages. He forced a lot due to the ability, but there were quite a few who wanted to support Zaros anyway.

Of course. It's not as if Zaros rounded everyone up every few days and made them bask in his presence.

The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

01-Nov-2016 17:50:55

Hazeel

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Ancient Drew said :
^ About the memoriam crystals for Zaros, he said himself that he was born with an aura ability that causes anyone near him to become loyal to him. This effect only happens in a certain perimeter, however, and it dissipates with time.

The effects he and Seren had on each other diminished, but never went away, and the effects Seren had on her elves never went away either....so with that said, I think Zaros is wrong on that count. I think the only reason Zamorakians got out of it is due to the whole "clarity aura" Zamorak has to counter it.

Cthris said :
Is forcing loyalty the same thing as enslaving?

Yes. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

01-Nov-2016 17:53:48

Dec

2023

Cthris

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Chaos Lupus said :

1) "By your logic, anything anyone intentionally does ever is forcing something."

Yeah, is that not obvious

?

If you intentionally go swimming then aren't you forcing yourself to go swimming? Do you have any other rebuttals for my proof?

Also:

"There's clearly a difference between "forcing" power into existence and forcing someone into slavery."

But there is not that big of a difference between forcing loyalty into existence and forcing loyalty which was the implication to derive.

"I expect that his intentions were simply to create a powerful force that would be loyal to his cause"

Is there not two aspects that Zamorak is applying to the force (dwarves); Loyalty, and power? The same two aspectsthat Ollie pointed out " He didn't just give them power , he also forced them into servitude ."

As well.

Are you familiar with the re-adaption of Murphy's law? What can happen will happen?

If loyalty is unwavering, meaning it is eternal/infinite, and "what can happen will happen sometime in infinity" then doesn't that mean that there is no possibility within an infinite amount of time that disloyalty can happen within the individual? If something can't happen, then you can't possibly choose it to happen right? and if you can't choose disloyalty then you can't possibly choose loyalty.

So then would it not follow that someone with unwavering loyalty has not chosen to be loyal?

2) Now who is twisting words?

Brainwashing and temporary loyalty are synonyms under many contexts.

3) " Force into servitude=enslave. "

Servitude: the state of being a slave or completely subject to someone more powerful.

"Or complity subject to someone more powerful"

Sounds a little like our relationship with our governments eh? Guess we are all slaves....

01-Nov-2016 18:16:03 - Last edited on 01-Nov-2016 18:23:22 by Cthris

Chaos Lupus

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@ Socrateus

1.) I don't see how twisting words serves the conversation.

There's a huge difference between providing incentive for loyalty and brainwashing. Those two things aren't even remotely similar.

No one is arguing that Zamorak forced the dwarves into servitude, as he very clearly did. The question is whether or not that was his intent. Judging from the quote, it wasn't, as Ollie makes a very clear distinction between intent and results. The results were that the chaos dwarves gained power and were forced into servitude. Zamorak's intent, on the other hand, at least as pertains to this particular quote, was to create a powerful force loyal to his cause.

No one said anything about unwavering loyalty. Most people don't mean the most absolute form of something in their daily language.

2.) Still you.

So the individual in question clearly doesn't actually hold that position, it's one they've been forced against their will to take.

3.) Where do you live? We're not completely subject to the government, at least not where I'm from, hence why there are restrictions to what it's allowed to do.

The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

01-Nov-2016 19:01:06

Jan

2020

King Shoshon

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Excluding whatever the Godless are going to have as a leader, probably Armadyl. You can't be a "god" and a wimp. Its just recipe for disaster. We will move across their borders and pick our teeth with their bones. We will flush them from their homes and crush them beneath our paws. We will finally be free of the filthy Brown Tigers once and for all! White Tiger Kingdom! White Tiger World!

01-Nov-2016 20:53:19

Ancient Drew

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King Shoshon said :
Excluding whatever the Godless are going to have as a leader, probably Armadyl. You can't be a "god" and a wimp. Its just recipe for disaster. Oh, I wouldn't call him a wimp. He may have had a history for pacifism, but he had the balls to stand up to and kill Bandos, and has stated that he will kill if he feels the need to. And he was there when Tuska came hurtling towards us. I would say he's got some bottle considering he's one of the more peaceable gods, and his phoenix mantle is likely to be earned. Prepare for hell on RuneScape in Naval Cataclysm!

Pokemon battle? Friend Code: 4614-0426-2439

01-Nov-2016 21:20:13

Chaos Lupus

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King Shoshon said :
Excluding whatever the Godless are going to have as a leader, probably Armadyl. You can't be a "god" and a wimp. Its just recipe for disaster.

A stupid god is potentially just as dangerous as a malevolent one.

The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

01-Nov-2016 21:21:29

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Your antithesis god?