RuneScape Forum Archive | The Defence of Saradomin

Nerevarine x

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Lego Miester said :
Nerevarine x said :

The self fulfilling prophecy still applies, as long as she wanted to prove a point about Saradomin. Her actions due to such a pre-existing bias led to a negative response from him, which served only to further strengthen that bias.

More like replaced it. She came in disliking the war, and seeing Saradomin as an equal, no more perfect than the rest of them. She came out brutally injured, with an intense loathing for Saradomin as a monster. A self-fulfilling prophecy is something that was not true that someone makes true by their actions. In this case it was already true that Saradomin was flawed, and already true that the icyene had to fight for him. His actions only reinforced the second one.

I know a self fulfilling prophecy involves a false definition, I said that myself.

Garlandia's view is that Gods are corruptible and flawed which is false (she makes a general statement about Gods and applies this to Saradomin since he's a god too). In Saradomin's case he brought wealth and knowledge to New Domina, a benevolent act, he is not as corruptible and flawed in reality as she believes.

In fact, I would not say he is corruptible but does have some flaws.

Therefore it is a false definition or at the very least, partly true and partly false.

But the important aspect is that she believes it's entirely true which results in the self fulfilling prophecy.

She makes it more true that Saradomin is flawed through her own behaviour at the banquet and the consequences of that, since he punishes her due to what she claims is embarrassment.

14-Dec-2013 03:30:43 - Last edited on 14-Dec-2013 05:15:23 by Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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I've decided to remove the section on a self fulfilling prophecy (still got it in a Microsoft word document), it's borderline and could fit in, but I'll elaborate more on Garlandia's own bias and how this has affected the story she gives us on Saradomin instead.

14-Dec-2013 04:08:05

Nerevarine x

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Further modifications to the conclusion to be less provocative and more to the point.

Done, I'm happy with all the new changes.

14-Dec-2013 04:48:39 - Last edited on 14-Dec-2013 05:13:43 by Nerevarine x

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2023

Lego Miester

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Nerevarine x said :
Further modifications to the conclusion to be less provocative and more to the point.

Done, I'm happy with all the new changes.

I am too. You've always prided yourself on backing what you say with the lore, and the more provocative part really only served to make people who sympathize with the wingless icyene angry. Headcanon Haven, where everything is made up and the points don't matter.
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14-Dec-2013 06:26:13

Nerevarine x

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Lego Miester said :
Nerevarine x said :
Further modifications to the conclusion to be less provocative and more to the point.

Done, I'm happy with all the new changes.

I am too. You've always prided yourself on backing what you say with the lore, and the more provocative part really only served to make people who sympathize with the wingless icyene angry.

What do you think of my new explanation regarding her biases? More realistic?

I think it's fair.

14-Dec-2013 06:35:33

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2023

Lego Miester

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Nerevarine x said :

What do you think of my new explanation regarding her biases? More realistic?

I think it's fair.

I still disagree that it was the appropriate course of action on Saradomin's part, but that's probably not going to change until we actually get Saradomin's perspective on the issue. I'm hoping this story gets elaborated upon around the time we get to visit the icyene world. Headcanon Haven, where everything is made up and the points don't matter.
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Slepe Tight - Slepe Lore

14-Dec-2013 06:38:25 - Last edited on 14-Dec-2013 06:39:08 by Lego Miester

Nerevarine x

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Lego Miester said :
Nerevarine x said :

What do you think of my new explanation regarding her biases? More realistic?

I think it's fair.

I still disagree that it was the appropriate course of action on Saradomin's part, but that's probably not going to change until we actually get Saradomin's perspective on the issue. I'm hoping this story gets elaborated upon around the time we get to visit the icyene world.

Yes I figured as much, but what is your opinion of the new information I've supplied about Garlandia's bias?

14-Dec-2013 06:44:56

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2023

Lego Miester

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Nerevarine x said :

Yes I figured as much, but what is your opinion of the new information I've supplied about Garlandia's bias?

Well it's clear, with the jmod quote as added insurance, that she's biased against Saradomin, and that we don't have the full story.

"This demonstrates that she held anti-god convictions for quite some time."

Do they count as anti-god? I suppose that depends. She just sees them as they are, empowered mortals, with all the flaws that come with them. The other icyene we've met glorify Saradomin as a messiah. From her perspective, she's the one sane one in a group of fanatics with pro-god convictions.

"We've already discovered that Saradomin brought knowledge and wealth to New Domina, a benevolent act, but Garlandia's bias means she trivialised this great achievement (she barely discusses it) and maximized the controversy of Saradomin removing her wings."

That's a good point, actually. It seems like, from her point of view, the benevolence of bringing knowledge and wealth to their society was countered in at least equal measure by bringing war and expecting the icyene to fight for him. It's not really a gift if you expect them to pay the bill for it.

She definitely is biased, and if we ever get an account from Saradomin or his followers of the rest of the story, we can expect it to be biased the other direction, with the greatness he brought to their society played up, and the means required to maintain it downplayed. Headcanon Haven, where everything is made up and the points don't matter.
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Slepe Tight - Slepe Lore

14-Dec-2013 07:01:58

Nerevarine x

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The lore doesn't clearly indicate whether Saradomin expected them to join his army in exchange for the wealth and knowledge though.

All it says is he brought three things, wealth, knowledge and war. So he could very well have had benevolent intentions with endowing wealth and knowledge upon them, but he was also seeking warriors if possible - not strictly in the sense of an exchange .

14-Dec-2013 07:09:40 - Last edited on 14-Dec-2013 07:10:44 by Nerevarine x

Raleirosen

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What I have a problem with is that there is nothing I've seen that indicates that Garlandia held her anti-god bias before the incident with Saradomin. Absolutely nothing .

It is far more likely and far more logical that she developed those prejudices after Saradomin punished her. Asserting that an anti-god prejudice is what drove her to defy Saradomin is speculative at best. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

14-Dec-2013 07:43:22

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The Defence of Saradomin