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Dethal
Jul Member 2012

Dethal

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Nerevarine x said :
Raleirosen said :
I prefer the first explanation.

I don\'t, but I included it anyway since it's possible.

Seems far more likely she was punished (rightfully) as an example from my view. Too much was at stake for Saradomin.

You try to defend ripping off the wings of your own followers who have put their trust in you, after the blatant lies about being benevolent? I'm pretty cool

12-Dec-2013 08:16:54

Lego Miester
Nov Member 2023

Lego Miester

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Nerevarine x said :
I don't see Saradomin acting out of impulsivity in this instance. I view his actions as deliberate and intentional - he wanted to punish Garlandia for her defiance and set an example. I refer to it as an unfortunate, regrettable but practical necessity.

Sounds an awful lot like " You dare defy a god?! I will not be denied! "

There's similar excuses too. In the first case, if I had successfully destroyed the wand, he couldn't resurrect the centaurs and fuel his armies. That is directly in the path of Saradomin's goals. You don't get in the way of those goals.

In this case, her insubordination threatened his authority at a banquet of other icyene. As you noted, he would not risk losing icyene support by allowing his authority to be challenged, so he cracked down on it, harshly.

As she described, Saradomin knowingly condemned her to excruciating pain, followed by what was intended to be a slow, lonely, painful freezing to death as the icyene migrated without her.

I can see how Saradomin could justify that in the "for the greater good" sense, but it doesn't make it any less barbaric and cruel.

Though in the other corner we have Bandos who's decisive victories lead to the destruction of his own planet. So that leaves the dead planet score to Bandos 2, Saradomin 1. Headcanon Haven, where everything is made up and the points don't matter.
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12-Dec-2013 08:33:02 - Last edited on 12-Dec-2013 08:45:32 by Lego Miester

Nuada
Aug Member 2021

Nuada

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Nerevarine x said :
"
I don't see Saradomin acting out of impulsivity in this instance. I view his actions as deliberate and intentional - he wanted to punish Garlandia for her defiance and set an example. I refer to it as an unfortunate, regrettable but practical necessity.

Nerevarine, I cannot understand how you can attempt to justify Saradomin's actions and yet villify other gods for doing similarly distasteful things.

For example, on your [qfc id= 341-342-179-65213575]'Zaros is Evil'[/qfc] thread, you call Valdez an innocent explorer.

You also say that by cursing all those who were involved in his downfall, this was evidence of Zaros's evil nature.

Valdez says: "I chose that day to take it so that my Lord Saradomin’s power and prestige could be increased by its possession."

With Zaros and Saradomin at war, Valdez was trying to empower an enemy of Zaros, so he wasn't 'innocent.' He was working against Zaros by his own account.

Valdez was wronged by the Empty Lord and endures significant psychological torment. However, it is permanent, recurring and never ceases.

The exact same thing happened to Garlandia. She envoked the ire of a god, and suffered the consequences.

"(What is life like on New Domina without wings?)"

"It is unforgiving. On out homeworld, we migrate regularly from one continent to another. This is to keep in the sun. To be in the cold is almost certain death. Without wings, I could not migrate. I endure the cold for what seemed to be like forever – basking in the fleeting sun. But I survived when others could not. I did not survive unscathed. My skin has shed its colour – a reminder of the sacrifice I made to be free of a god."

Saradomin rips the wings off an Icyene who refused to fight for him, causing her to suffer for 'the greater good.' You claim that Saradomin's actions were both necessary and justified.

12-Dec-2013 09:08:30

Nuada
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Nuada

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Suffering, I might add, continously and with little hope of recovery, which is exactly the same reason you say proves Zaros is evil, for cursing those who brought about his downfall.

Viggora: "And as the Empty Lord faded from this world completely, I heard a voice, almost a whisper upon the wind, cursing all who had helped Zamorak in his victory."

We see here that Zaros waited until the very last moment to curse those who were involved in his downfall. As Zaros wasn't very con*ious of the Elder Artefacts, and as Zaros knew he'd be able to return, cursing those who were involved in his betrayal would allow for him to question and learn from them when he returned; else they, as humans, would have been long dead.

I believe that if you claim Zaros's actions as evil in the instance of cursing those who were involved in his betrayal, you must also accept that Saradomin's action in ripping Garlandia's wings off are evil too.

And if you try to allow justification for Saradomin, you must allow justification for Zaros.

12-Dec-2013 09:20:05

Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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Dethal said :
Nerevarine x said :
Raleirosen said :
I prefer the first explanation.

I don\\'t, but I included it anyway since it\'s possible.

Seems far more likely she was punished (rightfully) as an example from my view. Too much was at stake for Saradomin.

You try to defend ripping off the wings of your own followers who have put their trust in you, after the blatant lies about being benevolent?

They are not blatant lies, I still argue and supply evidence to show Saradomin is benevolent in the thread ;)

12-Dec-2013 09:33:24

Lego Miester
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Lego Miester

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Nerevarine x said :


They are not blatant lies, I still argue and supply evidence to show Saradomin is benevolent in the thread ;)

You can argue that his actions are justified , and that he is indeed achieving great things in the long term. That's a completely legitimate point of view that Jagex clearly wants to be valid. The controversy is mainly are the actions yielding more harm or good? People can believe either way, faced with the same evidence.

But you try to label him benevolent again and you're going to get laughed out of the forums. Headcanon Haven, where everything is made up and the points don't matter.
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12-Dec-2013 09:40:28 - Last edited on 12-Dec-2013 09:42:33 by Lego Miester

Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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Lego Miester said :
Nerevarine x said :


They are not blatant lies, I still argue and supply evidence to show Saradomin is benevolent in the thread ;)

You can argue that his actions are justified , and that he is indeed achieving great things in the long term. That\'s a completely legitimate point of view that Jagex clearly want to be valid. The controversy is mainly are the actions yielding more harm or good? People can believe either way, faced with the same evidence.

But you try to label him benevolent again and you\'re going to get laughed out of the forums.

He is benevolent, I never said he wasn't or stopped arguing it. In fact it's on the first post of my thread and always has been.

A lot of the evidence I present does show he is benevolent, other evidence is a defence of his more questionable actions. Even those questionable actions are for the greater good, for a benevolent cause.

12-Dec-2013 09:43:50 - Last edited on 12-Dec-2013 10:02:41 by Nerevarine x

Dethal
Jul Member 2012

Dethal

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You got me wrong, I didn't mean your lies.

I just imagine Saradomin entering icyene homeworld all
"Sup guys, I'm Saradomin, a benevolent god of order. Do you want my protection?"

"Okay, sounds good."

"Cool. Okay there's this war I need help with..."

"War? But... you're a benevolent god of order, why..."

"Come on, just see how it goes."

And then some icyene learn they don't like war. Then Saradomin -forces- them to fight. I'm pretty cool

12-Dec-2013 10:02:14

Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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Nerevarine x said :
Raleirosen said :
I prefer the first explanation.

I don\'t, but I included it anyway since it\'s possible.

Seems far more likely she was punished (rightfully) as an example from my view. Too much was at stake for Saradomin.

Switched the order of my arguments, number 1 is the perspective I advocate and believe in - the first argument the reader will engage with and pursue, so it makes more sense for me to put it there.

12-Dec-2013 10:51:50 - Last edited on 12-Dec-2013 10:52:25 by Nerevarine x

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