RuneScape Forum Archive | The Defence of Saradomin

Nerevarine x

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Elder Tasgall demonstrates his inadequate knowledge of the battlefield situation, a limitation of his human life span and nothing more.
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Further on in the "Song From Before the War" the author enlightens us about the conditions of the war and the hardships he and his villagers endured.
The small town came under attack by demons and:

Sergeant Mazakon's voice boomed out above the carnage. "Now is your chance to prove yourselves! Defend your homes!"

"Two houses were burning where the fireball had crashed through them, and by the light of the flames I could see the battle in progress at the other end of the main street."

"Several of my friends lay dead or dying on the ground, their bodies twisted, gaping wounds glistening in the firelight."

"The Icyene stood at the far end of the road, bleeding from a slash on his arm but undeterred: an immovable rock of a soldier, blessed by Saradomin with superhuman power. He towered over the burning buildings and swung around his head a sword as large as a man."

"I ran forward and grabbed a sword from beside the body of one of the fallen soldiers. But then, may Saradomin forgive me, I hesitated."

"I should have thrown myself into the fray: the creature would have killed me in a moment, but that moment might have distracted it from Mazakon and given him the chance to smite it."

Mazakon looked in my direction, his eyes furious. "Sing, useless human woman" he said.

"The creature's last attack had left three wide claw-marks across his chest that were streaming with dark blood."

"I ran over to Sergeant Mazakon. He was on his side, unconscious."

This segment of the "Song From Before the War" explains how the author, who was human, took on his responsibilities, although with hesitance due to his lack of combat experience. This is more evidence that humans voluntarily participated, to take up arms against Zamorak.

06-Dec-2013 05:49:33 - Last edited on 09-Dec-2013 06:33:22 by Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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We also receive a small, yet unclear insight into the relationship between the Icyene Mazakon and human Elspeth. Mazakon calls her useless.

Some lore users have selected this phrase to propose the Icyene mistreated humans. Given the danger and desperate context of the situation when Mazakon had been struck by the ripper demon, Mazakon's orders are acceptable, if not a little obnoxious

Moreover, this chapter gives us deeper information on Elspeth's singing. Previously the author expressed uncertainty on how Elspeth's voice could be so pure and astonishing. He postulated that Elspeth's voice may have been blessed by Saradomin.

In the village hall, Mazakon described Elspeth as: "A holy warrior who has slain a dozen of Zamorak's demons" with her voice alone. During the confrontation he had with the ripper demon, Mazakon believed Elspeth could use her singing to repel it and ordered her to do so.

This indicates he was truthful in the village hall regarding Elspeth's combat prowess.

It's convincing that such a voice was granted by Saradomin as an exceptional gift - enabling Elspeth to drive demons into retreat or kill them, as if the notes she produces are so filled with benevolence that the demons cannot bear to hear them.

It does not give us any evidence that Elspeth's voice was used to enchant humans into entering Saradomin's army though.
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The subsequent events in the "Song From Before the War" specify how the villagers recovered after the attack, how Elder Tasgall died and how Mazakon awoke from his unconscious state, but died from his wounds.

The author says: "I poked through the ruins finding the villagers cowering in their homes and telling them to gather in the village hall."

" The village hall was filled with sweat and fear, the heat of the bodies and the fire driving away the chill of the night."

06-Dec-2013 05:50:00 - Last edited on 09-Dec-2013 06:34:33 by Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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"Everywhere I looked there were body parts, some so mutilated I couldn't tell what or who they had once been. Elder Tasgall was dead. I nearly threw up when I saw his body."

"I found more bodies than survivors, and even those who weren't wounded were terrified, huddling wild-eyed in the ruins of their lives."

The author recounts what he said to Elspeth: "They died for Saradomin, if they slowed the Ripper down so it didn't kill Sergeant Mazakon, then that was worth it."

Even after this great destruction and loss of life, the author in the "Song From Before the War" insists the humans died for a good cause - to try and protect Mazakon - even though they were not successful.

This evidence adds to several pieces of prior lore to show the author, who is human, appreciates Saradomin's struggle against Zamorak and understands the value of defending the Icyene. The author does not attribute blame on the Icyene or Saradomin for the village's downfall.
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The next portion of the document characterises the authors' great courage and how Elspeth met her doom at the hands of a ripper demon, but not without one last piercing note from her voice, which vanquished the infernal creature.

The author recalls:

"After a couple of minutes I saw movement, as a dark rag-wrapped shape rushed to the body [of Mazakon, who was yet to be buried] from between two houses.

"There was a sickening crack of tearing flesh and bone, and then the Ripper raised its claws to the sky and let out a blood-chilling howl."

"The Ripper hissed and stood upright, stretching its massive claws out on either side."

"I could hear my heart pounding in my chest, but this time I was not paralysed with fear. I would like to say that my faith in Saradomin sustained me, but in that moment I think it was Elspeth who kept me moving. I would fight for her."

06-Dec-2013 05:50:44 - Last edited on 09-Dec-2013 06:35:39 by Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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"I let out a cry and ran at the demon. It snarled, and then pain erupted in my leg as I was thrown aside."

"I could only watch as Elspeth stepped forward and the demon turned its attention to her. Then she started to sing..."

"The Ripper let out a moan, a very human-sounding cry of anguish."

Soon enough: "The spell broke, as if the Ripper's bestial nature had won out over whatever emotions Elspeth's singing had triggered in its heart. It lunged forward, grabbed Elspeth in one claw and ran the other one through her chest."

"With Elspeth in its claws, the demon could not cover its ears: it took that piercing note full in the face."

"It dropped Elspeth to the ground and staggered back, whimpering. A few moments later it smouldered and collapsed into a cloud of sulphur-smelling smoke and a pile of ash."

The aforementioned dialogue is, once again, a testament to the author's enthusiasm to fight in the war. It seems obvious to me that no human who was controlled or enchanted into enlisting in Saradomin's army would fight with such conviction and morals.

The author of the "Song From Before the War" was very brave, dedicating himself to fighting for Elspeth, a testament to their close relationship and the human spirit of fighting for one another, trying to stop the ripper demon.

Elspeth confronted the vicious beast, but was struck down by its claws before she could defeat it. With her last piercing note though, the ripper demon quickly perished.
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In the final part of the "Song From Before the War" the author recollects:

"We had lost our leader, and every family had lost loved ones. Over the next few months the survivors travelled to other villages to make new lives, leaving ours a ruin."

"I walked towards the Front until I found a recruiting post, and joined the Army of Saradomin."

06-Dec-2013 05:51:08 - Last edited on 09-Dec-2013 07:49:52 by Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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"When the recruiting sergeant interviewed me I told him the story of Elspeth, how Saradomin had granted her the strength to sing one final piercing note that struck the demon dead."

"It's become a common inspirational tale, passed around from soldier to soldier: the image of the Icyene-blooded maiden giving us hope on the front lines."

Sadly, the author died 5 years later in a clash with Zamorakian forces.

The last record in "The Song before the War" is pretty powerful and memorable. The author emphasises the significance Elspeth played in not only his life, but the lives of Icyene and other humans on the battlefield. She was only human, yet she was so much more than that.

This closing chronicle shows how decisive one woman was to the Icyene, how Saradomin probably blessed her, knowing the crucial role she was to fulfil against the ripper demons.

Lore users who despise Saradomin say he does not see the use in humans, that he believes them to be weak compared to the Icyene - that humans are not a race he cares about. Yet the "Song From Before the War" tells me everything opposite to that.

The Icyene tried to recruit humans, they needed them to fight. If the Icyene could do it themselves, then Mazakon need not have visited the village. Elspeth, only a human, was likely endowed with a voice by Saradomin that could destroy ripper demons themselves, which is remarkable.

The author, a human, fought with valour like any Icyene would, and likely so did other human survivors. He then continued to fight after the village was ruined.

I see no reason why Saradomin would resent humans from this evidence.
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Saradomin's Defence: The Zarosian Extermination

A large group of lore users say Saradomin committed genocide against Zarosians in the 2nd Age, which they call "The Zarosian Extermination."

06-Dec-2013 05:51:34 - Last edited on 14-Dec-2013 13:24:30 by Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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Currently, little lore exists to support the supposition that Saradomin systematically killed off Zarosian civilians, but he definitely participated in wars against Zaros.

Until further lore on the Zarosian Extermination is revealed, I will present my perspective from the small amount of evidence available.

In the Book "Nex's Followers", it is stated that:

"Shortly after Zamorak became a god, a crusade radically changed the history of Gielinor. It was a crusade to rid the world of anything - and anyone - relating to Zaros. This resulted in the burning of books, buildings, and those with ties to Zaros who refused to kneel at the boot of Zamorak."

Nex's Followers outlines how historical and cultural Zarosian documents were burned and how buildings were destroyed. Anyone with ties to Zaros, who would not acknowledge Zamorak and kneel before his boot were killed.

Notice how Zamorak is named here but Saradomin isn't even mentioned. The author of the book (who isn't specified) refers to Zamorak only, as if to entail Zamorak was the perpetrator of the genocide.

Why would Saradomin kill innocent people for refusing to kneel before Zamorak's boot and worship? It doesn't make sense.
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In the Book of the Gods: Zaros Section, Dagroda, Priest King of Senntisten says:

"For a hundred generations we have held the Holy City against the armies of the usurper and the other gods. "

"Alone among the armies of this world at war, we fight without the presence of our god, and yet we stand unconquered."

"But our city now faces an unprecedented threat. The massed armies of Zamorak and Saradomin approach us at once, each larger than any army the city has repulsed before."

Dagroda supplies us with the first piece of information signifying Saradomin was involved in a war with Zaros. He was co-operating with Zamorak to defeat the Empty Lord.

06-Dec-2013 05:52:01 - Last edited on 09-Dec-2013 06:51:46 by Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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Lore users generalise this co-operation as solid evidence for Saradomin systematically killing innocent Zarosian citizens.

Nowhere does it say Saradomin aimed to do this, or carried it out.

However, Saradomin did want to see Zaros' Empire dismantled though (we know a Saradominist city was built on top of the ruins of Senntisten - this was named Saranthium.)

We also know Saradomin wanted to destroy Zaros' armies.

But why?

Jagex Mod Jack (storyline writer for Zaros) gives us an insight into the Empty Lord. From this information, I believe that Saradomin fought against Zaros to protect his people.

I've underlined sentences of importance for emphasis.

Quote 1:

Original message details are unavailable.
I think it's unlikely that Zaros' justice would be the same as yours. Perhaps in Zaros' opinion the value of human life is very low , and the value of order is very high, so the only appropriate punishment for any crime is death. Or perhaps (since we suspect Azzanadra has mind control techniques) the punishment for any crime is mind wiping, or at least having the criminal part of your brain psychicly lobotomised in a cruel and painful way. None of this is canon, just giving some ideas.

Quote 2:

Original message details are unavailable.
The vast majority of people in the Zarosian Empire were humans . I'm not prepared to commit on the subject of slavery but as I'm imagining it there were technically no slaves in the Empire, but there were humans whose economic conditions amounted to little better than slavery.

Quote 3:

Original message details are unavailable.
The vast majority of humans in the Zarosian Empire were unsafe, unhappy and unprosperous . Just throwing that out there.

06-Dec-2013 05:52:28 - Last edited on 09-Dec-2013 08:30:53 by Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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Quote 4: Original message details are unavailable.
I'm not saying that the Zarosian Empire had slaves. (Although I'm also not denying that they did.) What I'm saying is that from Saradomin's POV, the happy, joyous people of Saradomiville were conquered militarily and suddenly seemed to be loyal to Zaros.

The only explanation he can see is that they were enslaved, so that's what he told everyone. Of course, conditions weren't great in the Empire anyway. Would you consider working in a Victorian workhouse slavery? What about a modern sweatshop?

This evidence indicates humans were mistreated extensively in Zaros' Empire, and I believe Saradomin desired to liberate them from this injustice.

The fact Saradomin was a human before ascending to Godhood (confirmed in Above the Lore Podcast 6) means he would have great sympathy for them too, a further motivation behind his reasoning for fighting Zaros.

I don't deny that innocent people may have been killed amidst the chaos of war between Saradomin and Zaros - empires rise and fall, warriors die, cities are conquered, or razed and rebuilt - Saradomin has done these, but none of this is consistent with genocide.

I argue the evidence to accuse Saradomin of genocide is insufficient and ambiguous. If anything Zamorak holds liability as mentioned in Nex's Followers.

Saradomin, as protector of the people, wanted to free the humans of their miserable lives under Zaros, so they could once again thrive and be happy.

06-Dec-2013 05:53:05 - Last edited on 09-Dec-2013 08:31:52 by Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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Garlandia - Icyene Member of the Godless.

With the return of Armadyl and Bandos to Gielinor, a massive battle for divine energy has occurred. The Godless faction are once again present, with Kara-Meir representing them.

An Icyene named Garlandia, who is a member of the Godless, provides us with interesting information regarding Saradomin.

In this section I'll be dissecting that lore and exploring it.

When conversing with Garlandia she says:

"I am Icyene and our home was ruled by Saradomin. Though he brought knowledge and wealth to our lands , he also brought war. He demanded that we fight for him and many did so willingly. "

These short sentences by Garlandia inform us on how Saradomin bestowed great understanding and knowledge upon the Icyene, in conjunction with wealth. This is an act of exceptional benevolence which helped the entire Icyene race.

We also see that Saradomin brought war to the Icyene realm, seeking to recruit them into his armies. Garlandia is adamant that Saradomin demanded them to join him, but even so, a large number of Icyene heeded this call to arms and voluntarily aided Saradomin.

Why did they do this? Because they trusted Saradomin, they knew he had a just cause, they saw the good he was trying to accomplish.

So, I see no negative association with Saradomin in this text, I see his benevolent nature. He may have been demanding towards the Icyene, but many of them fought for him on their own volition.
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Next, Garlandia states: "I used to be a noble being, with wings that were the envy of everyone. But I lost them in an act of savagery."

"At a banquet, he [Saradomin] called across the room and asked whether I would be joining his infantry or his bombardiers. I told him I had no intention of fighting at all."

"In his embarrassment over my refusal, he gathered everyone into the courtyard."

06-Dec-2013 05:53:35 - Last edited on 14-Dec-2013 06:24:03 by Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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"There, he ripped my beautiful wings from me. For an Icyene that is as good as death."

"On our homeworld, we migrate regularly from one continent to another. This is to keep in the sun. To be in the cold is almost certain death. Without wings, I could not migrate. I endured the cold for what seemed like forever - basking in the fleeting sun."

"I did not survive unscathed. My skin has shed its colour - a reminder of the sacrifice I made to be free of a god."

Now, there are two possible explanations for Garlandia's testimony that I propose. The first is a conscious decision by Saradomin to punish her for good reasons and the second is impulsiveness by Saradomin.

1. To begin with, we must consider that the removal of Garlandia's wings was justified, which is what I believe and will argue.

I don't see Saradomin acting on impulsivity in this instance. I view his actions as deliberate and intentional - he wanted to punish Garlandia for her defiance and set an example. I refer to it as an unfortunate, regrettable but practical necessity.

We know Saradomin feels remorse, making hard and questionable choices which have affected others, but he does this for good reasons. He sacrifices his own reputation so that he may achieve something good from it and his followers need not do as he does.

The evidence cited below supports this.

In the Death of Chivalry Saradomin said:

Saradomin: I have done many questionable things. Yet I have always hoped that the ends justify my means. .

Saradomin: I try to do what is necessary to protect my people, that they might live a life of virtue without fear. .

Saradomin: ...and have no cause to dirty their hands, as I have. .

In addition, Saradomin has also told us the following:

Saradomin: It seems that I am not unsullied by my decisions . I cannot wield the wand's full power.

Saradomin: I have made difficult choices . I have sacrificed others for my cause.

06-Dec-2013 05:54:05 - Last edited on 14-Dec-2013 06:24:46 by Nerevarine x

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The Defence of Saradomin