RuneScape Forum Archive | The Defence of Saradomin

Nerevarine x

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Saradomin: I believe it is for the greater good , but my actions have tarnished my soul.

Saradomin: All that I have done has been necessary for the good of Gielinor and its inhabitants.

Saradomin: Nevertheless, some of the actions I had to take were regrettable. This is my sacrifice. .

Saradomin does not play by his own rules and will do what is needed to achieve his aims of a great peace, however controversial it is.

Garlandia's public insubordination during the banquet challenged Saradomin's leadership and methodologies, causing considerable humiliation.

Saradomin committed a questionable act here, by removing Garlandia's wings, but I firmly believe he did so always with the greater good in mind.

Now, let's theorise and use logical deduction.

I believe if Saradomin were to allow Garlandia to go unpunished, it would set a truly disastrous example to other Icyene at the banquet.

It would have encouraged the Icyene as a race to consider abandoning fighting for Saradomin's cause, they may have idolised a figure like Garlandia who defied him, knowing it is acceptable to query his judgement. It would bring Saradomin's reputation into disrepute. This is something Saradomin could not and would not risk.

After contributing such riches and knowledge to their homeworld and enjoying significant support from most Icyene, Saradomin would not allow Garlandia to oppose and degrade him in such a public setting. An example had to be made of her.

The Icyene were important to Saradomin's plans and remain so, they are essential to battling his enemies in the hope that one day, his grand vision of a utopian world founded on order can become a reality.

If Saradomin allowed Garlandia to undermine this with her disrespect and insolence, rallying other Icyene to her cause, then Saradomin's progress on the Icyene realm would be forfeit and the loss of powerful Icyene warriors would weaken his armies.

06-Dec-2013 05:54:36 - Last edited on 18-Dec-2013 05:27:35 by Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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On Twitter, Mod Moltare has elaborated on Garlandia:

Icriulis @treemanforever

@moltare Is the godless Icyene lying to make Saradomin look bad?

AJ @moltare

@treemanforever No. What she describes is an accurate although not unbiased description of what happened.

This tweet confirms that Saradomin did remove the wings from Garlandia, but interestingly it highlights that her view is not completely impartial or fair either, as she retains a bias of some sort.

It seems she is trying to depict Saradomin in the most negative light possible, due to her affiliation with the Godless faction.

This is not to say she is deceptive about the events, it merely implies Garlandia may be omitting some other information about why Saradomin did this to her.

Further discussion with Garlandia offers an explanation in relation to her bias. She states:

"Gods are like us - corruptible and flawed - but with devastating power at their disposal. I rejected Saradomin to -------> underline that point <------- When a god calls, we do not have to answer."

This is the most enlightening and intriguing dialogue of all.

We learn Garlandia had innate prejudices against Gods, she believed them to be corruptible and flawed. She defied Saradomin at the banquet to underline these beliefs to him.

This demonstrates that she held anti-God convictions for quite some time. Hence, her bias influences the way in which her story has been told to us and the emphasis she uses on particular aspects of it.

We've already discovered that Saradomin brought knowledge and wealth to New Domina, a benevolent act, but Garlandia's bias means she trivialised this great achievement (she barely discusses it) and maximised the controversy of Saradomin removing her wings.

Her pre-existing bias makes her account of Saradomin's *actual actions* still accurate, but the reasoning behind why it transpired is one-sided and not completely reliable.

06-Dec-2013 05:55:02 - Last edited on 19-Feb-2014 11:10:55 by Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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Later, Garlandia professes:

"I have witnessed a God's savagery first-hand. Saradomin is no paragon of purity and order which he maintains."

"He ripped off my wings simply to save face and preserve his dignity."

This dialogue by Garlandia fortifies my prior argument that Saradomin's actions were justified. He was respected immensely among the Icyene and could not be publicly humiliated without negative repercussions.

He wanted to conserve his dignity and sense of worth, but could not do so with Garlandia going unpunished.

My conclusion is that Garlandia was disrespectful and posed a threat to Saradomin's command and goals. I believe she deserved to have her wings removed for the greater good.
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2. Another explanation, which I do not believe is correct but is possible, is that Saradomin acted on impulse, whereby his emotions clouded the objectivity of his judgement.

We have seen in the past during the Naragi incident that Saradomin has the potential to make decisions on impulse, driven by emotion (although Kaigi's Journal also indicates the Naragi may have shared some responsibility for starting the war with Saradomin, so it's probable it was not exclusively his fault).

If we accept this explanation of impulsivity in Garlandia's circumstances, it would mean Saradomin's actions were not justified and were wrong, as he did not rationally assess the situation.

However, it would not portray Saradomin as malevolent. Instead, it would paint him as a God who on occasion, allows his impulses to inform his decisions without considering all options available to him.

Sometimes this leads to scenarios he regrets or wrong actions such as when he arrived on the Naragi plane. However, Saradomin maintains a desire to do good and ultimately, does fight to protect his people.

06-Dec-2013 05:55:29 - Last edited on 14-Dec-2013 06:48:56 by Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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The God Wars Amulets: Zilyana's Notes and Armadyl's Assault.

Many people are familiar with the tale of Commander Zilyana and her betrayal of Kree'arra in the Gods Wars.

In this section, I'm going to investigate the events more scrupulously and provide explanations to defend both Saradomin and Commander Zilyana.

At the beginning of Zilyana's notes, it states:

"Day 12 of my mission to retrieve the Godsword. The aviansie are foolish cravens. Just the merest sniff of K'ril and they've retreated into the Temple of Lost Ancients. They have chosen to cower underground where there's no hope of escape. Trapped, like caged birds."

"Once again it is left to the forces of good to secure victory. Saradomin has sent me to ensure that the Godsword does not fall into the wrong hands. I bring my trusted bodyguards and a small reserve of priests and knights."

The most important fact to grasp from this passage is that Saradomin sent Commander Zilyana into battle to ensure the safety of the Godsword and retrieve it. This was her primary purpose and to this end, she must do anything necessary to obtain and safeguard it.
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Day 20: "The avianse have established a camp in the southern part of the temple that they're calling Armadyl's Eyrie. K'ril is in the north. I've told my men to set up next to the eyrie, to help defend against K'ril's constant onslaughts."

"Unfortunately, Bandos has also sent us 'aid' in the form of the simpleton General Graardor."

Here we see that the forces of Bandos and Saradomin defended the Aviansie from Zamorakian attacks near Armadyl's Eyrie.

06-Dec-2013 05:56:47 - Last edited on 14-Dec-2013 11:45:26 by Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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Day 27: "That drunken oaf Graardor led a small band of ogres into the Eyrie, plotting to take the Godsword for himself. Kree managed to drive him back, but now it's all-out war between us, Graardor and K'ril."

In this part of the notes, Zilyana alerts us on how General Graardor attempted to steal the Godsword. If he was successful in doing so, this powerful weapon would be in a dangerous God's possession (the Book Armadyl's Assault tells us directly that Bandos had joined forces with Zamorak, more information on that soon).

As Saradomin instructed, Zilyana's duty was to prevent the Godsword from falling into the wrong hands.

I believe for this reason Zilyana had an increased incentive to retrieve the Godsword at that moment, believing it was unsafe in Kree'arra's ownership. She also saw an opportunity to claim it with Kree'arra distracted fighting K'ril and Graardor.

Zilyana's betrayal of Kree'arra can be seen as double-crossing, but also an action for the greater good, which is a common and recurring theme in Saradominist faith.

Some people will denigrate Commander Zilyana as a traitor to her allies, but I maintain she had a clear goal in mind always, strong justification for seizing the Godsword and opportunity to do so. Her actions were consistent with the obligations she was assigned with by Saradomin.

We must also remember that Saradomin was not responsible for this specific decision and his connection or involvement is not alluded to anywhere. Zilyana devised the idea herself, so if any blame is to be attributed it should be to her alone.
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Day 32: "The assault was not successful. When faced with demons, goblins and the avianse, my priests and knights stood firm, but the peasants ran or died."

"Growler was injured, and we scarcely made it back to Saradomin's Encampment alive. I must go now and pray to Saradomin. He will help us."

06-Dec-2013 05:56:52 - Last edited on 14-Dec-2013 12:31:51 by Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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This piece of Zilyana's journal discloses how she launched an attack to acquire the Godsword, but was met with fierce resistance by all three factions, narrowly escaping. In her desperation, she prayed to Saradomin for assistance.
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Now, let's take a gander at the book "Armadyl's Assault" to find out what it has to say.

"Kree'arra - the war's gone on too long. I can't recall how many months have passed since we got trapped here. In those first weeks, we only had K'ril to worry about. We held his forces back with little trouble, but we struggled to break from him."

"You requested aid from our allies, and they neglected to come; you told them of the Godsword and they rushed to help us. We should have anticipated their greed. Graardor joined forces with K'ril, and Zilyana staged her own attack. I feared for our own survival."

"Yet, Armadyl be praised, we survived. We repelled their attacks. You made peace with Zilyana, a wise decision, we couldn't battle on three fronts at once."

This account corroborates Zilyana's notes, telling us that both Saradominist and Bandosian forces aided the Armadyleans. It is also reliable in reporting Zilyana's betrayal and Graardor joining forces with Zamorak, reinforcing that Commander Zilyana had a valid reason to be concerned for the Godsword's safety.

In addition, it details how a truce was brokered between Kree'arra and Commander Zilyana. The key word here is peace, it was not a 2nd alliance.
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Zilyana's notes continue by declaring:

Day 33: "Three amulets were waiting on his [Saradomin's] altar when I woke. I crushed them, as they bore the symbols of Armadyl, Bandos and the accursed Zamorak. My men insist that no one entered the chamber. I will make it my priority to root out the heretic."

06-Dec-2013 05:56:58 - Last edited on 14-Dec-2013 11:37:47 by Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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Day 34: "A miracle. When I woke, the three amulets were there again. This is no trick - they can only be from Him. But why would He send them? I asked Bree, Growler and Starlight to wear the amulets. Bree prefers the one with the Armadyl symbol; he can feel a power radiating from his bow when he wields it."

"No doubt Kree's spearmen would benefit from it, but why would I put these prizes in the hands of my enemies? What great plan are you hiding from me, Master?"

Day 42: "More amulets appear each day. This is most puzzling."

Day 45: "Bree headed a small expedition to see how the battle was faring. At the time, I thought I was suffering from the strain of command, as I could hear him. At first it was only intermittent - the sound of galloping hooves, the odd shout."

"Yet, as I focused, I could hear more. I could hear his commands; hear those he was fighting. He was in trouble; his men were overwhelmed. It occured to me then that he was wearing the amulet; that this was its power."

"I willed Bree to return, muttering it over and over. Within the hour he was back in the encampment; he said he felt like I was calling for him."

Day 62: "I prayed for salvation and Saradomin has delivered it. The amulets give me the power to listen to the bearer. And, although I can scarcely believe, it's like I can sow the seed of a thought in the wearer's mind."

"It is only a subtle influence - nothing more than a whisper, a murmur or a hiss - but it is there. With the amulets around my enemies' necks, their strategies will be laid bare and I would be able to play on their doubts."

"Saradomin has had the foresight to make these amulets attractive to our enemies - they bear icons that appeal to their pride and false faith. I only need to trick my enemies into accepting them; I must make them think that they've been hard-won so that they'll slip them around their necks willingly."

06-Dec-2013 05:57:48 - Last edited on 14-Dec-2013 11:39:25 by Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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In this lengthy segment of Zilyana's notes, we see that three amulets with the symbols of Armadyl, Bandos and Zamorak appeared in Zilyana's camp, sent by Saradomin.

Interestingly, Saradomin does not reveal his intention behind why these amulets were given to Zilyana.

When Bree wears one, he feels power emitting from his bow. More amulets materialise each day - what purpose would this serve?

Could it be that the amulets were designed to be utilised by Saradomin and Armadyl's army co-operatively, allowing Zilyana to comprehend the strategies of the Aviansie and support them appropriately?

Could the ability to delicately influence thoughts of Armadylean commanders be used positively in battle, when they are struggling against the enemy?

Zilyana observes that the amulets generate power and would benefit Kree'arra's spearmen, could this be another practical application for them?

Commander Zilyana herself tells us that she could hear Bree's Commands and recognise when he needed help, ordering him to return to base. Could the purpose behind these amulets be to communicate with her own forces as well, despite the icons of Armadyl, Bandos and Zamorak which are adorned upon them?

There are many, many questions to address here. I believe there's a good possibility that the amulets supplied by Saradomin could have been intended for use in a different way.

If we entertain the idea that Saradomin did create them for use against Kree'arra, which is possible, it would not be a betrayal since the alliance was dissolved at this point, there was only a truce, which is prone to revision at any time.
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The end of Zilyana's notes affirm:

Day 95: "Kree has been deliberating over whether to attack my encampment - he believes he has the power to destroy me, but doesn't want to leave the north open to attack from Graardor."

06-Dec-2013 05:58:09 - Last edited on 14-Dec-2013 12:33:51 by Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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"I can hear him talking it over with his generals. Perhaps I will add another voice to his council. I will whisper in his ear, contriving him to bring his forces to the waterfall, so that my archers can rain death upon the heretics!"

In this text, it's clear to me that Zilyana's ambush of the Aviansie was justified. She broke the truce between both Gods, but this is not a betrayal. An agreement of a truce is not a formal alliance and is frequently prone to relapsing into war.

Kree'arra was plotting to do the same as Zilyana, but he did so first . He was discussing whether to attack Saradomin's camp with his generals and believed he had the strengthen to destroy Zilyana, but refrained from doing so in fear of leaving the North open for invasion.

If Armadyleans wish to classify this as a 2nd betrayal by Zilyana, it means Kree'arra was not in the right either. He was planning a betrayal against Zilyana to begin with and Commander Zilyana, realising the treachery of Kree'arra, took the initiative against him. I am absolutely convinced she was correct in this choice, given the state of affairs.
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Now, let's analyse the final section of "Armadyl's Assault".

"I write this note as I may be the only one capable of saying it: you must destroy the amulets Zilyana gave you. I was suspicious of mine and threw it to the fire. It cannot be coincidence that my thoughts are clear, while the rest of us are so muddled and distracted."

"It's certainly changed you. Slowly, subtly, naturally, but the differences are obvious. Before, you had always ensured that we had a way out; you never led an assault until you were certain of success, and you always showed extreme sadness whenever a precious aviansie was lost."

"Now? You've become hasty and rushed. You have no plan for escape."

06-Dec-2013 05:58:57 - Last edited on 14-Dec-2013 14:38:56 by Nerevarine x

Nerevarine x

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"When we stealthily approached the waterfall, Zilyana's troops were lying in wait. How could she have anticipated it, if not for the amulet? No general would stage a defence in that spot unless they knew of an approach. The amulet is all that makes sense."

This section confirms Zilyana's notes, describing the effects that the amulets had on Kree'arra's commanders and army. It also depicts how they were lured into a Saradominist ambush, supporting Zilyana's evidence.

Overall, I find Commander Zilyana's actions are not as horrific as lore users make them out to be. I find both her and Saradomin had very good reasons for their behaviour.

06-Dec-2013 05:59:07 - Last edited on 14-Dec-2013 11:42:30 by Nerevarine x

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The Defence of Saradomin