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Fredeus
Jul Member 2011

Fredeus

Posts: 461 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Derack said :
"captured" is wrong. "removing tyrants" or "freeing the town from it's shackles", is a better text to use.

Granted, capture might not have been the word I was looking for, which I tried to hint to by putting it into italics in my original post. My point was that there was a possibility, should Zamorak have wished to, to suggest a
new way
for the Duke of Lumbridge to manage his town, or replace him totally, thus erasing the saradominist values imprinted in the town's government. That would have been a defeat for Saradomin, just as bad as having Lumbridge reduced to rubbles since, well, in both cases, would mean Saradomin could no longer count on the help of the habitants of Lumbridge. Plus, I was running out of characters, so I had to cut my explanations short.

Also, I assume that when you say "removing tyrants" and "free the town of its shackles" you meant to cut whatever influence Saradomin might have over it. To that, well, we will never agree about how benefical or detrimental Saradomin's influence is over Lumbridge.

Derack said :

and worse? like what? zamorak doesnt (like to) use power for evil .


Fredeus said :

He might have only intended to siphon the energy and leave right after, but there is a possibility he could have swayed the duke, captured Lumbridge, or even worse, all of Misthalin.

In this context, the "or even worse" refers to the possibility of seizing territory larger than just the town of Lumbridge. I was not implying Zamorak could have done something worse to Lumbridge than capture/occupy/convert it.

Continued...

30-Jul-2015 11:34:47

Fredeus
Jul Member 2011

Fredeus

Posts: 461 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Derack said :

"he battled Zamorak and forced him out of the kingdom." .
you're joking right? you make it sound it's all of saradomin, which is a big lie.


Once again, I was running out of space, so I had to cut short my explanations so it fits in one post. I expected the Lore Forums to understand when I say "he battled Zamorak and forced him out of the kingdom." that I meant "Saradomin's army battled Zamorak's army until came a point where Saradomin had enough power leverage to blast Zamorak and force Moia to teleport them to safety.".

Derack said :

saradomin didn't cared about lumbridge, he only cared about fighting zamorak, (prove is in the bol(?) podcast).

Well, ****. I was bound to get checkmate'd at some point in my arguments.

Derack said :
he destroyed a farm and a fishing shop , and together with his and zammy's charged power blast destroyed more land and part's of the city.
and worse of all, he didn't do anything to rebuild, neither did his followers.

he may be t3 out of this battle, but it took another god to find the source, and alot of mortal blood.

more is lost, then won.

I'm pretty sure the farm and the shop were blown away by the wind and debris from the explosion rather than by Saradomin erecting his barriers, making Saradomin only 50% responsible for this. Anyway, they got relocated/rebuilt afterwards.

As for not helping to rebuild, that gives him a common trait with Zamorak, right? In all his Wisdom, I'm sure Saradomin intended us to get stronger, to rebuild the town better than it was prior to blasting it.

Finally, yes, more was lost than won, indeed. But not ALL was lost.

Demons could be sheering some sheeps and tending to our cabbages as we speak if we had let the chaos god loose. *Shivers*

30-Jul-2015 12:07:21

Derack
Jul Member 2013

Derack

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Fredeus said :
Derack said :
"captured" is wrong. "removing tyrants" or "freeing the town from it's shackles", is a better text to use.

Granted, capture might not have been the word I was looking for, which I tried to hint to by putting it into italics in my original post. My point was that there was a possibility, should Zamorak have wished to, to suggest a
new way
for the Duke of Lumbridge to manage his town, or replace him totally, thus erasing the saradominist values imprinted in the town's government. That would have been a defeat for Saradomin, just as bad as having Lumbridge reduced to rubbles since, well, in both cases, would mean Saradomin could no longer count on the help of the habitants of Lumbridge. Plus, I was running out of characters, so I had to cut my explanations short.

Also, I assume that when you say "removing tyrants" and "free the town of its shackles" you meant to cut whatever influence Saradomin might have over it. To that, well, we will never agree about how benefical or detrimental Saradomin's influence is over Lumbridge.

i don't think lumbridge is all saradominitsts, sure it has fanatics with the god statue d&d if you don't build the zily one. and most people are, but lumbridge has a zamorakian herbalist with a familie. so i think it's a mix of both, with guthixians probably included.

also with the duke dilemma:
The battle is coming to a head. If we have any spare money, we could consider aiding one or other side.
-Send aid to Saradomin.
-Send aid to Zamorak.
-Send aid to both sides equally.
-Spend the money on food aid for Lumbridge.

i don't really believe it's 100% a saradominists city, it may have a saradomin church, but thats because worshipping zamorak is forbidden in every city.

and i don't think jagex would have bothered with changing things if zamorak had won.
"If you believe you can distance yourself from the harm you cause, you're deluding yourself. You're not some mindless tool. You're accountable. Your actions will catch up with you eventually." -Jedi Master Jun Seros; Swtor Bounty Hunter storyline.

30-Jul-2015 14:01:45

Derack
Jul Member 2013

Derack

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Fredeus said :
Derack said :
snip
snip

1: Player: Can you tell me about the battlefield?
Fred the Farmer: Hmph. Yes, a great big portal appears not far from my farm and Saradomin and Zamorak come traipsing over my land, happy as you please.
Fred the Farmer: Bloomin' soldiers everywhere, spooking my chickens and telling everyone they should join up with some army of other.
Fred the Farmer: Then, without a warning, Saradomin himself plonks a war camp on top of my house. Well, I was angry, I'll tell you.

Hank: Look at all this mess. Turfed out by Saradomin of all things.

Player: By Saradomin?
Hank: Yes, it was during the battle of Lumbridge. Saradomin decided that my shop was in the way of his camp. Since then, I've been out here in the street, trying to peddle what's left of my wares.

2: i disagree, saradomin claims and preaches he wants order and protect his followers/people, yet, he brings chaos/destruction of his own to them.

the whole town was left to deal with it them self, no help from saradomin or his followers.

whats wrong with having some demons doing farm work? :p
"If you believe you can distance yourself from the harm you cause, you're deluding yourself. You're not some mindless tool. You're accountable. Your actions will catch up with you eventually." -Jedi Master Jun Seros; Swtor Bounty Hunter storyline.

30-Jul-2015 14:14:32 - Last edited on 30-Jul-2015 14:15:35 by Derack

Fredeus
Jul Member 2011

Fredeus

Posts: 461 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Derack said :
snip

Indeed, not all of Lumbridge is saradominist, but, as you said, the only church there is is dedicated to Saradomin. That, in my book, makes that the town saradominist.

Derack said :
snip

1. Wel*, Saradomin did toss aside Fredeus Fred the Farmer and Hank Hill . Someone's had to go sell its fishes and fishing accessories elsewhere.

2. I was being sarcastic in the destroy and rebuild stronger paragraph. I was just mocking the fact that when Zamorak does it, it's alright, but when Saradomin does it, it's unacceptable.
Anyway, we could as well consider this an act for the Greater Good from Saradomin's point of view.


Oh, and what about demon farmers you ask? Would you eat a cabbage infused with chaotic energy? It would be so chaotic that it never tastes the same thing everytime you take a bite at it.

31-Jul-2015 09:09:25

Maiden China

Maiden China

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Fredeus said :
it's alright, but when Saradomin does it, it's unacceptable.

I'm fairly sure Zamorak didn't do it (or wouldn't have, had he won). It's just the Zamorakians who will take any excuse to see him as the good guy.
Not that that makes them the worst... everyone does it

It's just never said that that's what happened/would have happened... and god x slaps you in the face and you love him for it but when god y does the same thing... wait a moment, I'm agreeing with you... odd...
I am too tired Carn

31-Jul-2015 09:25:31

Derack
Jul Member 2013

Derack

Posts: 3,066 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Fredeus said :

2. I was being sarcastic in the destroy and rebuild stronger paragraph. I was just mocking the fact that when Zamorak does it, it's alright, but when Saradomin does it, it's unacceptable.
Anyway, we could as well consider this an act for the Greater Good from Saradomin's point of view.


Oh, and what about demon farmers you ask? Would you eat a cabbage infused with chaotic energy? It would be so chaotic that it never tastes the same thing everytime you take a bite at it.

demon farmers would be awesome. beside the world guardian hates normal cabbage, a chaotic one can't be worser.

well, if you're a god and preach order and protection, you will do anything to get the bad guy far away from (your) the city and protect it, or atleast try to create a shield to block a charged blast. they were both on the same power, a shield to block wouldn't have destroyed the city. nor hurt saradomin.

i'm not saying or trying to justifices zamorak's destruction to lumby, i don't really expect him to defend or help, even if it's his own followers towns or citys.
"If you believe you can distance yourself from the harm you cause, you're deluding yourself. You're not some mindless tool. You're accountable. Your actions will catch up with you eventually." -Jedi Master Jun Seros; Swtor Bounty Hunter storyline.

31-Jul-2015 12:58:33 - Last edited on 31-Jul-2015 12:59:48 by Derack

Fredeus
Jul Member 2011

Fredeus

Posts: 461 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Derack said :

demon farmers would be awesome. beside the world guardian hates normal cabbage, a chaotic one can't be worser.

well, if you're a god and preach order and protection, you will do anything to get the bad guy far away from (your) the city and protect it, or atleast try to create a shield to block a charged blast. they were both on the same power, a shield to block wouldn't have destroyed the city. nor hurt saradomin.

i'm not saying or trying to justifices zamorak's destruction to lumby, i don't really expect him to defend or help, even if it's his own followers towns or citys.

This might not be much, but Saradomin did stand somewhere around the H.A.M. hideout when he threw his warning shot on Zamorak's back, perhaps in an attempt to lure Zamorak's attention towards him rather than on Lumbridge. Also, I doubt creating a shield powerful enough to cover a whole town from a god-empowered magical blast would leave no consequences on Saradomin's combat prowess. The battle started rather quickly, leaving little to no time to lay down a magical barrier and it could have stretched his power in a way so he would be weaker than Zamorak...

...yet, he did make a projection of himself mid-battle to talk with the World-Guardian during Death of Chivalry quest, at seemingly no penalty. Meh. It's complicated.

At this point, trying to justify why Saradomin didn't do more to defend Lumbridge is just speculations and headcanons. Therefore, I'm retiring from this debate.

31-Jul-2015 15:46:13

Hazeel

Hazeel

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Saradomin didn't need to do anything to defend Lumbridge...but it would have been nice if he didn't personally attack it. He could have easily moved before setting up camp. But nope. While Zamorak set up his in the middle of nowhere where nobody was hurt, Saradomin endangered his followers to set up his camp.

It's sad that Zamorak treats Saradominists better than Saradomin does. =P Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

31-Jul-2015 16:46:44

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