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Saradomin and Guthix*spoilers*

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Hazeel

Hazeel

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The 95% was hyperbole. The point was, there was no reason to turn Saradomin down regardless of the numbers, because if the don't ally, it makes things ridiculously easier for the Zarosians when they start tearing at each others throats...and that's what happened. Once Saradomin betrayed Zamorak, the two were focused on each other, which gave the Zarosians a lot of relief.

I wouldn't consider Zemourgal's memory canon, personally, given the massive amount of lorefails within it and the fact that in this instance, it's contradicted by multiple sources of lore, including the Zarosian Book of the Gods and DaT. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

19-Jan-2017 17:56:33

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Hazeel said :
I wouldn't consider Zemourgal's memory canon, personally, given the massive amount of lorefails within it and the fact that in this instance, it's contradicted by multiple sources of lore, including the Zarosian Book of the Gods and DaT.

I see no contradictions.

Zammy ascends, declares himself a god (BotG) and subsequently collapses (Zem's mem). He gets taken to Infernus (Zem's mem), and his followers take control of the Divine Palace (BotG) (not as difficult a task as it normally would be given Nex's absence (Pernix in CoM) and the fact that most of the Senntisten guard had been sent on a wild goose chase (Virtus Book).

Nex returns, and she and Azzanadra plan and execute a counter attack (BotG) that forces the Zamorakians out of the city, but cannot wipe them out (Zem's mem).

Fast forward 19 years, and Zamorak returns with his army of Avernic. He attacks all of the invading forces and begins reclaiming the former territory of the Zarosian Empire (Zem's mem). At some later point down the line, Zamorak and Saradomin ally to, at the very least, deal with the Zarosian stronghold that is Senntisten (BotG) (though it may have been made in order to deal with other areas the Zarosians held prior to and after Senntisten).

At some later point (likely having to do with the 64 year period between Zamorak taking Senntisten and Saradomin having built Saranthium over the ruins of the former city), the alliance breaks and each of them are at the other's neck (DAT).

19-Jan-2017 18:50:54 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2017 18:55:53 by Hguoh

AesirWarrior
Jan Member 2021

AesirWarrior

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Hguoh said :
Hazeel said :
I wouldn't consider Zemourgal's memory canon, personally, given the massive amount of lorefails within it and the fact that in this instance, it's contradicted by multiple sources of lore, including the Zarosian Book of the Gods and DaT.

I see no contradictions.

Zammy ascends, declares himself a god and subsequently collapses. He gets taken to Infernus, and his followers take control of the Divine Palace (not as difficult a task as it normally would be given Nex's absence (as explained by Pernix) and the fact that most of the Senntisten guard had been sent on a wild goose chase (Virtus Book).

Nex returns, and she and Azzanadra plan and execute a counter attack that forces the Zamorakians out of the city, but cannot wipe them out.

Fast forward 19 years, and Zamorak returns with his army of Avernic. He attacks all of the invading forces and begins reclaiming the former territory of the Zarosian Empire. At some later point down the line, Zamorak and Saradomin ally to, at the very least, deal with the Zarosian stronghold that is Senntisten.

At some later point (likely having to do with the 64 year period between Zamorak taking Senntisten and Saradomin having built Saranthium over the ruins of the fomer city), the alliance breaks and each of them are at the other's neck.

Minor nitpick here, but there's a 64 year gap between a Zamorakian coin and a Saradominist coin. Zamorak probably held the city for years before 3740 (I'd say at least 1k years going by the book of the gods).

Anyway he's probably referring to Zemouregal mentioning the SOJ when he believes it to be a myth in Curse of Arrav. -
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

19-Jan-2017 19:02:58 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2017 19:03:26 by AesirWarrior

Hguoh

Hguoh

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AesirWarrior said :
Minor nitpick here, but there's a 64 year gap between a Zamorakian coin and a Saradominist coin. Zamorak probably held the city for years before 3740 (I'd say at least 1k years going by the book of the gods).

The point is that the city of Senntisten was there, fell, and was completely built over in a 64 year time period (during a war in which battle lines didn't significantly move over the course of a human's lifetime (The Song from Before the War gives one example of 20km over 100 years) and Senntisten was an absurdly big city). I don't think Zamorak would take that well.

AesirWarrior said :
Anyway he's probably referring to Zemouregal mentioning the SOJ when he believes it to be a myth in Curse of Arrav.

Um... Where do it say he think's it is a myth in the Curse of Arrav? Because I can't find anything.

19-Jan-2017 19:18:59 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2017 19:33:43 by Hguoh

AesirWarrior
Jan Member 2021

AesirWarrior

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Hguoh said :
AesirWarrior said :
Minor nitpick here, but there's a 64 year gap between a Zamorakian coin and a Saradominist coin. Zamorak probably held the city for years before 3740 (I'd say at least 1k years going by the book of the gods).

The point is that the city of Senntisten was there, fell, and was completely built over in a 64 year time period (during a war in which battle lines didn't significantly move over the course of a human's lifetime (The Song from Before the War gives one example of 20km over 100 years) and Senntisten was an absurdly big city). I don't think Zamorak would take that well.

AesirWarrior said :
Anyway he's probably referring to Zemouregal mentioning the SOJ when he believes it to be a myth in Curse of Arrav.

Um... Where do it say he think's it is a myth in the Curse of Arrav? Because I can't find anything.


Sorry I meant Defender of Varrock

"Enough! I don't have time to worry about fairy tales. The ritual approaches and we must be prepared. This may be our last real chance before the time comes to head north." -
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

19-Jan-2017 19:49:25 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2017 19:50:27 by AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior
Jan Member 2021

AesirWarrior

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double post -
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

19-Jan-2017 19:49:32 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2017 19:50:15 by AesirWarrior

Darc Oejder

Darc Oejder

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Why did it take so long to take Sentisten anyway? Zamorak or Saradomin in their collossal forms could shoot a magic beam at the walls and enter the city with their forces. I still don't understand how a city no matter how strong can stand against gods when the god who built it is absent.
The only thing that comes to my mind is that tier 4 gods are not as strong as we thought and that if an army is powerful enough they can stand against them.
There is joy in combat that can't be found anywhere else.

19-Jan-2017 19:59:53

Hguoh

Hguoh

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As much as the dialogue was pretty clearly meant to indicate Lucien and the Catalyst, the devs have a bit of leeway on this. For one, we lost them for a bit, so it is entirely possible for the topic of the conversation to have changed. For two, Sharathteerk's line that Zemo is responding to is:

I am telling you, he may be close to finding it.

Which doesn't specify Lucien or the Stone. That would, of course, raise the question of exactly what he was referring to, however.

Alternatively, Zemo might simply not be all that convinced of the power the stone has (or at least he wasn't back in Defender of Varrock). Considering the stone's numerous names, the attempts by the gods to hide its existence, and that the Siphon was much more well known (it was the Staff of Armadyl, after all), Zemo could have simply been ignorant of the power the stone held and misattributed it to the Siphon.

Or, he might have just believed that Guthix had destroyed the Catalyst, making the rumors of its continued existence just fairy tales.

19-Jan-2017 20:12:44 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2017 20:18:59 by Hguoh

AesirWarrior
Jan Member 2021

AesirWarrior

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Darc Oejder said :
Why did it take so long to take Sentisten anyway? Zamorak or Saradomin in their collossal forms could shoot a magic beam at the walls and enter the city with their forces. I still don't understand how a city no matter how strong can stand against gods when the god who built it is absent.
The only thing that comes to my mind is that tier 4 gods are not as strong as we thought and that if an army is powerful enough they can stand against them.

Seeing as Zamorak started the war by attacking all the invading gods they might have been fairly busy for a while. -
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

19-Jan-2017 20:25:13

Hazeel

Hazeel

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@Hguoh

Zemourgal's memory says he collapsed immediately, but that's not what I was refering to. I was refering to the whole Zamorak attacking all the Gods. In the Zarosian Book, it says they were all allied. In DaT, it's confirmed they were allied--at first.

@Darc Oejder

As for why the city lasted so long...it would have had trouble at first, but once Saradomin betrayed Zamorak, they would be far more focused on each other. We have, as you say, a collosal giant shooting beams vs some ragtag remnants of the Zarosian empire with their leader and 2nd in command both dead, their army turned against them, and their civillians in terrible conditions that doesn't do well to create loyalty to the cause. Obvious, Zamorak and Saradomin are going to focus on the collosal giant rather than the remains of an empire. Honestly, I would be surprised if Senntisten fell from the inside with civillians and local soldiers going turncoat while the rest of Zamorak's army focuses on Saradomin. With Senntisten being Zamorakian, Saradomin has more reason to focus on it. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

19-Jan-2017 21:00:46 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2017 21:01:10 by Hazeel

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