RuneScape Forum Archive | In Defense of Saradomin

Hguoh

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William Witt said :
Guthix and his community lived outside Askroth, within sight of it.

Tell me something: if Guthix lived within sight of Askroth, why would he only learn of the city's destruction after the bands of Naragi fleeing the city reached where he lived?

No, all the memories state is that Guthix could see the fortress that Saradomin had built/was building (depending on the memory) on the horizon.

So if he couldn't see Askroth to recognize that it had been destroyed and could see Saradomin's fortress, all the memory supports is that Saradomin's fortress was much taller/larger than Askroth had been. It does not support the proximity that you claim it does.

And while, yes, the memories do state that Guthix's neighbors have died and Saradomin abandoned their world, I have a feeling that that has more to do with Tuska approaching his 'homestead' than it does with Saradomin having done nothing to them.

Don't try to combat misinformation with misinformation.

26-Jan-2017 13:18:00

Hguoh

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Astraea L said :
Some hold Saradomin responsible for attracting Tuska and Skargaroth to Naragun in the first place, due to the powers of his crown, but I find this to be a faulty argument. Although Guthix speculated that he did, there is no proof that this was the case, and in fact Tuska did not seem to have had an elder artefact at the time, and thus would not have been attracted to Saradomin’s crown. The only elder artefacts mentioned were Saradomin’s crown and Skargaroth’s sword. Besides, Tuska and Skargaroth did not simply hunt Saradomin down throughout the universe looking for his crown. Saradomin has brought the crown to Teragard and New Domina, both of which are still intact, and has not set foot on Mazcab to our knowledge, a world torn apart by Tuska.

Where to begin? Your entire argument revolves around the idea that wearing the crown leaves it constantly 'on' such that the wearer is constantly made aware of the locations of other artifacts and the bearers of those artifacts are made aware of the wearer of the crown. As we don't know how the crown works, you cannot rule out the possibility that Saradomin attracted Tuska and/or Skargaroth by pointing out that Teragard and New Domina weren't destroyed.

Furthermore, we do know that Skargaroth did have the Elder Blade and was described as a hunting god (who had been hunting Tuska). Even if we assume that Tuska or her Airut didn't have an artifact at the time (we'll have to see where the last artifacts are before we make that judgement), you can't deny the possibility that Skargaroth could have been directing Tuska towards the location of the crown (which would also explain why Tuska, even if she or her handlers had an artifact wouldn't have continued to pursue Saradomin).

26-Jan-2017 13:29:50

Hguoh

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Astraea L said :
For the sake of argument, however, let’s assume that Saradomin did in fact attract Tuska and Skargaroth to Naragun with his crown. Is he to blame for their actions? No. He is not responsible for their actions and could not have prevented them. If Saradomin had stayed away from any inhabited worlds, Tuska and Skargaroth would have eventually overwhelmed him and taken the crown. If he had gotten rid of the crown, someone else, potentially someone far worse, would have found it. Besides, if Saradomin had not visited Naragun, Tuska and Skargaroth would have simply destroyed another planet anyway. It was in their nature to destroy, and it still would have been even without Saradomin’s presence.

No, he is not responsible for their actions, unless, of course, he deliberately attracted them to the world. As for your scenarios:

1. Skargaroth was hunting Tuska. There is no reason to believe he'd work with Tuska against Saradomin instead of allying with Saradomin to overwhelm his prey, Tuska.

2. We've seen that even the Stone of Jas can be destroyed. Destroying the crown keeps it out of anybody else's hands ever.

3. Tuska maybe, but, again , Skargaroth was a hunter trying to kill Tuska. Maybe he'd fail to kill her on whatever other plane they ended up on, maybe the plane would be destroyed in the process, or maybe the plane wouldn't really be affected. You have no way of knowing whether or not they'd have destroyed another plane if they hadn't visited Naragun.

Look, I don't hate Saradomin, but I don't accept spreading misinformation to combat misinformation.

26-Jan-2017 13:38:40 - Last edited on 26-Jan-2017 13:40:20 by Hguoh

Sep

2012

Giras

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Saradominism revolves around Saradomin and just him. We're basically told to just trust this old guy who's already shown himself to be fallible. Yes, he's got experience in keeping societies intact...but we've seen the examples of his societies. Take Asgarnia: the White Knights take any excuse they can to get rid of any dissenting views either personally or by allowing their destruction (leaving Burthorpe and Taverly without aid). They're also denying the crown prince his throne and have the king stashed away somewhere if he's not already dead. His church even has branches that prohibit things like dancing, the end result will inevitably be a stagnant society where individuality is frowned upon.

We've also seen how "neutral" nations such as Misthalin have their negotiations stalled and nearly ruined by hardline Saradominist priests such as Aeonisig. I know you're going to say that Aeonisig isn't Saradomin...but we know that Saradomin just leaves people like Aeonisig in charge after he leaves and Saradomin himself has always been a "big picture" guy.

We also know that his civilizations don't last without him as stated in Saradomin's lore podcast that because of the rigid structure Saradomin left on Terragard the humans aren't in charge anymore and "something else" took over, presumably taking advantage of the system.

I'm no one's servant!

Good. Never let anyone think differently

.

26-Jan-2017 16:26:12

Edcy

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To defense just singular thing from so many more seems an eternal whirl and enjoying sadism that thrives from the distress in it. I've actually said something like this before and have bothered again albeit knowing it may be left ignored as usual due to it's possible truth in it, which many of you would consider defeat or other submittive behave - but worry not! It's normal, you'll survive.

My goal isn't to make the world a boredom place, instead there should be entertainment and risks haved as well beetehwai! Is just the obvious that is not noted enought to continue the wheel rolling and rolling and rolling... Oh my head spins. But then there are those who recognize this just as i do, but for some reason keep it up and engulf in it, furthermore escaping their own selfishate. Because you can, should you?

P.S. Some of the words are played with so try to see the point behind them and evolve~

26-Jan-2017 17:22:20 - Last edited on 26-Jan-2017 17:24:25 by Edcy

Hazeel

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Hguoh said :
all the memory supports is that Saradomin's fortress was much taller/larger than Askroth had been.

...Or that he moved when the war began. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

26-Jan-2017 17:38:21

Ancient Drew

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All of Saradomin's faults, his pride and what I perceive as hotheadedness or misguidance, and all the questionable stuff which spatters him with mud, don't point to him being a monster. And Sir Owen came back half corrupted, with his heart and good will intact, the only problem being an itch to destroy good which draws a parallel between the Dragonkin causing destruction to find relief.

"The urge to destroy boils within me. The corruption claws at my mind." - Sir Owen

"I can sense the purity in you, my friend. The purity of your heart which allowed you to claim the wand. It is like a white-hot fire searing my senses." - Sir Owen

These sayings echo the rage of the Dragonkin when the Stone is used, and it's possible that we might end up killing him again in the sequel to Death of Chivalry to end his misery. Saradomin knows this, and knows how dangerous it is to keep him alive, but he also knows that there's a chance that the virtue within Owen which can be shown if he sacrificed his blood, could win.

Saradomin is really a normal human being who saw many things. He has his faults, but one good thing is he recognises virtue which he says "retains its value through scarcity." This is just humanity personified. Prepare for hell on RuneScape in Naval Cataclysm!

Pokemon battle? Friend Code: 4614-0426-2439

26-Jan-2017 17:42:33

Hguoh

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Hazeel said :
Hguoh said :
all the memory supports is that Saradomin's fortress was much taller/larger than Askroth had been.

...Or that he moved when the war began.

Except that in a previous memory, Guthix only received news about the opening portal in Askroth from a passing nomad. Considering a wanderer was privy to this news, it would make little sense for somebody who lived nearby the city to not of heard this information already. This also indicates a fair amount of distance between where Guthix lived and where Askroth had been.

26-Jan-2017 18:40:21

Hguoh

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Double post

26-Jan-2017 18:40:22 - Last edited on 26-Jan-2017 18:40:57 by Hguoh

Hazeel

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Hguoh said :
Hazeel said :
Hguoh said :
all the memory supports is that Saradomin's fortress was much taller/larger than Askroth had been.

...Or that he moved when the war began.

Except that in a previous memory, Guthix only received news about the opening portal in Askroth from a passing nomad. Considering a wanderer was privy to this news, it would make little sense for somebody who lived nearby the city to not of heard this information already. This also indicates a fair amount of distance between where Guthix lived and where Askroth had been.

That's the point. He didn't live near the city. But when the war came, he probably moved to stay hidden. And either by coincidence or because he wanted to keep up with what was going on, his new shelter had a view of the city. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

26-Jan-2017 21:00:38

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In Defense of Saradomin