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In Defense of Saradomin

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Astraea L

Astraea L

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Saradomin is a liar!


This is a claim I’ve heard a few times, but I’ve yet to be presented with any evidence that actually supports it. Saradomin has actually been quite open with the player, making no attempt to deny his more questionable actions such as the war on Naragun or ripping off Garlandia’s wings, and has freely admitted to being hotheaded and prideful. He makes no attempt to hide the fact that he seeks power and control, arguing that under his control, people would be better off.

“You say [control] as though it were a bad thing. People need to be led. They need governments. They need leaders. They need structure. Freedom doesn't mean anarchy. Just as control doesn't have to mean slavery. I offer guidance and leadership. Law and order. Under my 'control', people could thrive. Everyone would have the reassurance that they know where they belong and how they should behave. This people crave. Deep down everyone wants to know where they sit in the world. What you call control, I would argue is true freedom. Freedom to know how life should be lived and how to fulfill one’s potential.”
-Saradomin


The only example we have of Saradomin actually lying is when he claimed he had no living family, but he lied about that simply to protect his daughter, as any parent would, rather than to further some shady agenda.

People have argued that Saradomin is a liar because he claims to do good, but doesn’t actually do good at all. However, this is simply a difference of opinion, not a lie. We are given several indications in-game that Saradomin genuinely believes he is doing the right thing, and it is not deception to state something you genuinely believe to be true, regardless of whether or not it really is.
Skystone Jexel
, Supreme Warden of The Skystone Order and
Saradominist
Lorehound

The sword of the righteous and the shield of the defenseless.

26-Jan-2017 00:03:28 - Last edited on 24-Apr-2017 00:03:10 by Astraea L

Astraea L

Astraea L

Posts: 824 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
“Saradomin means well. Even back in the time of the god wars, he genuinely believed he was doing what was best for Gielinor. Misguided, perhaps. Arrogant, certainly. But there is a genuine sense of duty in his actions.” -Seren


“Where I sought freedom for all, Saradomin sought to control. I genuinely believe he seeks it because he thinks it best for everyone, rather than simply out of a lust for power. I think he is a good man, just… perhaps a little too distant from the people he seeks to govern.” -Armadyl


“But who is Saradomin to think he has the right to control the world? How can he be so arrogant as to think that he alone knows what is best for people and that he is doing the right thing?” you may be wondering. A lot of people believe Saradomin to be arrogant and self-righteous, but is he?
Skystone Jexel
, Supreme Warden of The Skystone Order and
Saradominist
Lorehound

The sword of the righteous and the shield of the defenseless.

26-Jan-2017 00:03:33 - Last edited on 26-Jan-2017 00:23:46 by Astraea L

Astraea L

Astraea L

Posts: 824 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Saradomin is arrogant!


Another argument I hear a lot of the time, and this one is admittedly quite understandable. Saradomin does have a habit of acting like he knows better than everyone else and his way is the right way of doing things. It would be accurate to say that Saradomin is prideful and egotistical, but it would not be quite accurate to say that Saradomin is arrogant. Arrogance implies that someone has an inflated opinion of themselves; that they think they’re so important when they really aren’t. Saradomin, however, has legitimate reasons for believing he knows best.

“Understand. I do not say this out of arrogance. I have lived millennia, and in that time I have seen countless governments rise and fall. There is a pattern to the ascendance and collapse of civilisation. A cycle of tragedy. I have the knowledge to break this cycle, and most importantly the will to lead everyone forwards. Is it wrong to use this knowledge?”
-Saradomin


Saradomin has a vast amount of practical experience, far more than any mortal human could ever begin to rival. His philosophy is not just an idea; it is something that he has already proven to work, and he has had the opportunity to witness the failure of many alternatives. Saradomin does not believe his philosophy will bring peace and prosperity to the world. He knows it will, because it has done so before. This is backed up by the word of not only Saradomin himself, but others as well.

“I created magisters… priests and teachers who were to act as my authority where I could not. They were learned individuals whom I would personally instruct on what lessons to teach others. I created twelve in total, each tasked with governing a different part of the world, and each given a mandate to improve humanity in line with my teachings. With the magisters in place, my people prospered, and entered a glorious age of enlightenment.”
-Saradomin
Skystone Jexel
, Supreme Warden of The Skystone Order and
Saradominist
Lorehound

The sword of the righteous and the shield of the defenseless.

26-Jan-2017 00:03:38 - Last edited on 26-Jan-2017 00:25:53 by Astraea L

Astraea L

Astraea L

Posts: 824 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
“Saradomin brought our people safety and hope, and as his priest I could do the same.”
-Padomenes


“Many have prospered under his rule, most notably your species... so there is some merit in what he espouses.” -Zaros


Imagine if you were playing a video game that you had beaten dozens of times before, and a relative newbie told you that you were playing it wrong. You probably wouldn’t be particularly inclined to listen to them, and this is what I imagine it feels like for Saradomin whenever the World Guardian argues with him.

Knowing this, it is quite understandable that Saradomin is so sure of the righteousness of his cause. Sure, that doesn’t mean he is always right, but he has shown himself willing to at least hear others out and explain his reasoning behind things when asked, as he does whenever the World Guardian questions him in quests and when Seren tries to convince him to withdraw from Sliske’s endgame. You may not necessarily be able to convince him to do things differently, but just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean they’re wrong or arrogant.
Skystone Jexel
, Supreme Warden of The Skystone Order and
Saradominist
Lorehound

The sword of the righteous and the shield of the defenseless.

26-Jan-2017 00:05:42 - Last edited on 26-Jan-2017 00:27:20 by Astraea L

Astraea L

Astraea L

Posts: 824 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I think I’ve made my case for why Saradomin isn’t actually as bad as players often think he is. I hope I’ve provided you with a fresh perspective on Saradomin, and that you can now understand the reasoning behind his actions and the merit in his philosophy, even if you don’t necessarily follow him or agree with him. Please leave a post if you have any feedback, if you think my arguments are flawed, or if you think I've overlooked something. I know this has been quite long, so thank you for taking the time to read it, and have a lovely day!

Yours truly,
Skystone Jexel
Skystone Jexel
, Supreme Warden of The Skystone Order and
Saradominist
Lorehound

The sword of the righteous and the shield of the defenseless.

26-Jan-2017 00:05:50 - Last edited on 26-Jan-2017 00:32:15 by Astraea L

Astraea L

Astraea L

Posts: 824 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
You may now post. Constructive criticism and counter-arguments are welcome, but please refrain from turning the thread into this:

Skystone Jexel
, Supreme Warden of The Skystone Order and
Saradominist
Lorehound

The sword of the righteous and the shield of the defenseless.

26-Jan-2017 00:06:36 - Last edited on 26-Jan-2017 00:40:11 by Astraea L

Aeldari

Aeldari

Posts: 57 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
A very nice and positive thread, I really enjoyed the read. It was very thorough and I appreciate that, I too have felt this way regarding several points you have brought up here. It can seem that the reaction Saradomin has received is mostly negative, however I believe that is a very vocal minority which often drowns out the support he receives.

A topic that I wanted to discuss as you have pointed out, is how can Guthix have said with any certainty that the Crown Archival was responsible for the arrival of Tuska on Naragun? It does not add up to me when given the fact that Tuska never arrived on Gielinor in the span of the 3rd age when Saradomin was present for thousands of years. I believe it was stated that Tuska was a beast attracted to the anima of worlds and she fed upon that energy. This was if I recall correctly, why she had an anima shield to begin with which precluded the gods from confronting her in space. For me the evidence is simply not there to support a claim that Saradomin drew Tuska to Naragun, but instead she was simply arriving on another food source guided by her Airut priests.

Even though I do not support Saradomin directly I am empathetic to his cause, and I can appreciate his ideals. It can not be realistically argued that his philosophy has not been to the benefit of his people as they have flourished in multiple kingdoms. In the end I will not oppose him as long as his actions continue to protect Gielinor and serve its denizens.
~Lore Hound~
/~Enticed Clan~

26-Jan-2017 03:05:22

William Witt
Aug Member 2023

William Witt

Posts: 12,465 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
On the matter of the alleged naragi "genocide", there's a point I myself have mentioned several times (including at least twice or more to its favored proponent, CD Paladin), but have received no acknowledgement. Tell me in your assessment if you think this logic is valid -

Guthix and his community lived outside Askroth, within sight of it. In fact, Guthix was present there for the entirety of the centuries long war, witnessing the various events described in the Tribute to Guthix memories. Furthermore, his community are the ones who took in refugees from the neighboring, destroyed city of Askroth - Band after band of them, as the memory tells us.

So apparently refugees from the city could go right outside the city walls and feel safe, while an entire community sits there for centuries. In fact, it's only after Saradaomin abandons them to Tuska that Guthix says his neighbors have died as a result.

Now, as we know well, Saradomin rebuilt Askroth as his HQ on Naragun. What kind of "genocide" leaves an entire community alive on your very doorstep for centuries on end, even when that community is hosting band after band of refugees from the city you just destroyed?
The Asgarnian ale must flow.

26-Jan-2017 07:41:31

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