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Godless or Zaros?

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Sepulchre
Dec Member 2020

Sepulchre

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Maiden China said :
Quael said :
Raleirosen said :
Sepulchre said :
I expect to be wrong about something at some point. I believe that I'm right, but I don't necessarily believe that I'm right about being right.

Right... I'll leave ya to it, then.


I don't see how "I want to be elder god by damaging Gielinor more, waking them up which my plan could fail. It's my birth right." is not proving you wrong, But hey, hope soon you see.
well, zaros does have far more plot armour than the elder gods do, so I really dont think they'll just laugh and then curbstomp him. This isnt game of thrones
That and you don't seem to pay attention very well.
"You.. wish to create a greater level of destruction?"

"Not greater. More targeted."


What Zaros plans to do would never work if he did what Zamorak did. Think of it like this: Zamorak dropped a nuke on Forinthry. Zaros plans to dig a hole down to where the Elder Halls are, then drop a cluster of grenades into it. A more targeted level of destruction. The surface may not even be effected, minus a few ground tremors in the immediate area. I admit his plan has its dangers, but at least he HAS a plan.
A
World Guardian
must learn to find
Balance
in themselves.
Only then can they
Control
themselves and forge their own
Fate .

22-Aug-2016 05:27:46

Ancient Drew

Ancient Drew

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To anyone doubting what Zaros has said to us firsthand, please pay attention to what he says in his memoriam device, which is practically his diary. This was the first thing I did in Fate of the Gods, collecting his crystals and checking it out. From what I gather, he wanted to escape Freneskae and explore the universe, which is quite similar to how a mortal child may want to go out into the world and sate their curiosity.

As for his alignment to order and control, let's take a look at how he describes demons, the first mortals he ever met.
"From the Chthonian dukes to the Avernic slaves, each individual a cog in the machine. Even the ousted Infernals have a part to play."
I believe that while he tries to control people (or at least used to), it was to allow them to grow and uplift themselves. And let's also take a look at how the vampyres had changed since Zaros met them, and showed them culture and society. Before then, they used to run about in the wild and squabble over prey.
"Unified, they could perhaps cease their infighting and become greater than the beasts they are."


Then we have the Mahjarrat. As Zaros says in the memoriam device:
"Within the empire they will rule as princes, and they shall be its inheritors."
He then goes on to say that they took over from the Chthonians after he left for Iaia and Freneskae, the empire sustained itself, and his presence wasn't needed (meaning the Zarosians were completely willing to follow him and were not controlled). And now he intends to make a mortal form strong enough to save us from the revision.
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22-Aug-2016 17:26:22

Quael
Jan Member 2018

Quael

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Sepulchre said :
Maiden China said :
Quael said :
Raleirosen said :
Sepulchre said :
I expect to be wrong about something at some point. I believe that I'm right, but I don't necessarily believe that I'm right about being right.

Right... I'll leave ya to it, then.


I don't see how "I want to be elder god by damaging Gielinor more, waking them up which my plan could fail. It's my birth right." is not proving you wrong, But hey, hope soon you see.
well, zaros does have far more plot armour than the elder gods do, so I really dont think they'll just laugh and then curbstomp him. This isnt game of thrones
That and you don't seem to pay attention very well.
"You.. wish to create a greater level of destruction?"

"Not greater. More targeted."


What Zaros plans to do would never work if he did what Zamorak did. Think of it like this: Zamorak dropped a nuke on Forinthry. Zaros plans to dig a hole down to where the Elder Halls are, then drop a cluster of grenades into it. A more targeted level of destruction. The surface may not even be effected, minus a few ground tremors in the immediate area. I admit his plan has its dangers, but at least he HAS a plan.


A Plan that could fail and very risky, just to gain Elder God status, something he wanted long ago. Sorry while I agree his plan to stop them, I don't agree that it is his birthright. I never said he'd cause destruction, I just said he wants power.
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27-Aug-2016 14:39:39

Solanumtinkr

Solanumtinkr

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I think a more successful method might be to try and get Gielinor to the point to it can turn the tables on the Elder Gods and drain them instead.

To have tried to reach perfection for so long. To have a long trail of destruction winding back into a countless past. To finally achieve that perfect creation through tremendous sacrifice. For the lifeforms of the time to struggle against "the inevitable" and fail. That creation then shows the Elders they achieved far more than they bargained for. An Awakening.

And then the Elders Perfect Creation to turns on them and eat them like popping candy. :P
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27-Aug-2016 14:51:56 - Last edited on 27-Aug-2016 14:58:57 by Solanumtinkr

Sepulchre
Dec Member 2020

Sepulchre

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Solanumtinkr said :
I think a more successful method might be to try and get Gielinor to the point to it can turn the tables on the Elder Gods and drain them instead.

To have tried to reach perfection for so long. To have a long trail of destruction winding back into a countless past. To finally achieve that perfect creation through tremendous sacrifice. For the lifeforms of the time to struggle against "the inevitable" and fail. That creation then shows the Elders they achieved far more than they bargained for. An Awakening.

And then the Elders Perfect Creation to turns on them and eat them like popping candy. :P
I recall it being revealed by Seren that Guthix was actually working on something in order to control the flow of the Anima Mundi so that the Elders never get enough Anima to reawaken. I believe that if this is true, Guthix most likely looked into more permanent solutions, such as this one.
This is relevant because well.. if Guthix couldn't do it, how the Infernus are we going to?? To manipulate Anima on such a grand scale to do the exact opposite of what it's meant to do, I doubt even Seren could do this herself without killing herself and/or damaging the Anima Mundi in some way.
A
World Guardian
must learn to find
Balance
in themselves.
Only then can they
Control
themselves and forge their own
Fate .

29-Aug-2016 05:46:12

Fat N Wacky
Aug Member 2013

Fat N Wacky

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Hmm. OK. I read through the first page of posts, and I think I've got a pretty good idea of what I want to say here.

I definitely wouldn't go the way of the Godless. Quite frankly, I think their entire purpose is flawed and their objective(s) are unattainable. Think about it: The Godless want to rid the world of Gods. In truth, however, what is a God? A God is a powerful leader for some cause, plight, or philosophy, etc. Take away all the current Gods, as the Godless wants -- What's left? Powerful leaders -- STILL. You can't rid the world of leaders, and you can't rid the world of *powerful* leaders. Leaders will always exist, just as followers will always exist. Leaders will always seek to amass power to further their cause, and followers will always support their leader and help to further the corresponding cause as best they can.

Furthermore, the Elder Gods are, in fact, a thing. Say what you will, but the Godless are not about to single-handedly eliminate the most powerful beings in the multiverse. That's just not realistic. Their plans aren't even concrete -- They barely know what they're doing. The Godless are literally just flailing around trying to eliminate Gods wherever they can and amass followers wherever they can (precisely what the other factions -- all pertaining to a God -- are doing...). Their entire principle is flawed.

Zaros, on the other hand, while he has his flaws, is, simply put, what's best for the world. Seren perhaps contests him on this title, but Zaros strikes me as the most proactive being in the area of attempting to eliminate the Elder Gods. He may be manipulative, he may seem untrustworthy -- he may even be untrustworthy -- but we can at least still trust that he's trying to do something about the sole biggest threat to every living thing's well-being in the universe right now (the Elder Gods, again).

(continued next post)
The best things in life are h i dden. You have to seek them out! :D

30-Aug-2016 05:47:06

Fat N Wacky
Aug Member 2013

Fat N Wacky

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The best part about Zaros is he doesn't care about the "petty" God Wars anymore. He just needs our support at the correct moments to help bring down the sole biggest threat to the well-being of every living thing in the RuneScape multiverse.

I personally see that as a HUUUUUGE advantage over the other Gods (beyond the whole actually-having-a-plan-and-being-proactive-against-the-Elder-Gods thing), because it allows [some of] the other Gods to coexist with him.

For example: Armadyl's whole thing is Justice. That has literally nothing to do with Zaros and his current ambitions. Armadyl is someone I can see coexisting with Zaros, because Armadyl could be focused more on the individual issues -- say, should someone rob someone else or murder someone else, and therefore have the perpetrator face judgment and receive justice -- while Zaros takes care of the bigger picture.

I would kind of like to say the same thing about Zamorak. His entire philosophy is "strength through chaos" -- He also has nothing to do with Zaros' current ambitions, he's just about rising up above the crowd despite all the crap being thrown at you. He's about the individual. Zamorak I honestly see as practically a motivational speaker -- But again, my point is, he and what he stands for basically have nothing to do with Zaros' current goals, and if they can just stop being stubborn and put their past crap behind themselves, they could probably coexist quite well.

Just to give an opposing example... Saradomin could absolutely not coexist with Zaros, as he has this obsession with being the one and true, only Lord of the Seven Kingdoms (lol, but you catch my drift). I honestly find him more in line with how Zaros was in the past -- obsessed with controlling everything and sitting at the top, above everyone. This would not sit well with Zaros, because Zaros wants (and honestly, considering the current state of things, he kinda needs) to be in control of the bigger picture.
The best things in life are h i dden. You have to seek them out! :D

30-Aug-2016 05:47:15 - Last edited on 30-Aug-2016 05:55:41 by Fat N Wacky

Quael
Jan Member 2018

Quael

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You got one thing wrong there, Godless wants to rid of gods, in Runescape, Gods are beings with power that surpasses mortal means, and are worshipped. Godless wants to rid of influence of those gods get rid of the destruction they can cause, and the control they have over us, only those gods. Get rid of their influence what do we have? Well mortals once again controlling their own lives and kingdoms doing their own things. Godless wouldn't get rid of leaders, no, but they would get rid of any potential religious threat, any potential godhood getters, and any potential god that plans on coming to gielinor to fight.

The Godless want a world without the Gods influence. Yes they may be leader, but they are leader of their own religion, their own army, and their own group, which they force to fight instead of doing it themselves with all the power they have. YES a leader/king/queen do that, but the difference between them, and a GOD in Runescape, is that a leader is mortal, and are either busy with their own tasks, like running a kingdom, or aren't that skilled and requires another to do so. While a god has the power to do whatever they please, they literally have the power to destroy an army, even destroy a city. But would rather have their own men do their work for them, for more power.

Overall The Godless only wish to rid of the gods influence over mortal, not leaders, not kings, just the gods, we lived without them before, the 5th age is proof, yes their magical influence, like prayer was still around, but at least we didn't have war that caused the crater in lumbridge, deaths in Bird and Beast.
Duke of Fort Forinthry
Interested in role-play? check out: The Quest Collective

31-Aug-2016 13:11:14

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