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Rondstat

Rondstat

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While penning my obligatory MPD slam in the 2016 quest wishlist thread, I got thinking about why my feelings towards certain quests are predominately negative. Whenever I address DAT, it's as another blunder on the path of missteps that have made up the god series. But when I actually played through it, my primary emotion was pleasant surprise. I enjoyed it - a lot - and I thought it was great fun to play. There were plenty of memorable, well-done features. But what stays in my mind is the shoddy dialogue, the bizarre plot choices, the disregard for continuity.

I contrast this with Birthright of the Dwarves. There was a lot I enjoyed about that quest while playing it - the lava mine run, the discovery of bizarro-Keldagrim - but I remember, on defeating Hreidmar and finishing the quest, my first thought was "well, that's over with." It had an unsatisfying boss fight that relied more on gear than mechanics, outdated graphics, an abrupt and disappointing ending... Yet, when I look back on it now, I think of Veldaban's hauntingly well-realized disillusionment, emotional isolation, his willful sacrifice of justice or empathy in the pursuit of ill-defined vengeance. I think of Hreidmar's sympathetic storyline, his fall into corruption and madness that acts as a photo-negative of Valdaban. I think of Grenda, and the acknowledgement that there is no right or wrong, that we all must face and take responsibility for our own actions, define our own justice. And I realize, it's absolutely one of my top quests in Runescape, it's one of the greatest storylines the game has ever seen, and it transcends any expectation for a cartoony MMO like Runescape.

Great writing is what makes a fantastic quest. I believe RS has had two great writers - John A and Seb D - and while there are some VERY good writers at Jagex currently (Stu), I'm not sure anyone on the team now can reach the heights of a BotD or Ports 1. I'd love to see Runescape focus on writing in future quests.

18-Jul-2015 23:04:39

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

Posts: 7,043 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Rondstat said :
Ports 1
Eh? Ports 1 was Mod Moltare (Alex F) - Seb D is (was :( ) Mod Edam; he did A Christmas Warble, The Elder Kiln, the Artisans' Workshop, and - one of the best quests there is - Do No Evil.

I also agree about the writing in Branches; the Myreque series overall has good dialogue, but the best dialogue and characterisation can be found in Branches. Even so, my favourite quest in the series would have to be Darkness, very, very closely followed by In Aid and Branches (and then, also closely, Legacy, and, less closely, In Search). Darkness has the best immersion and a variety of gameplay aspects, while In Aid makes great use of the environment and the amount of thinking, deducing and clue-hunting is sublime. Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

19-Jul-2015 10:02:20

Shpikey
Dec Member 2023

Shpikey

Posts: 1,442 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'd have to go with The World Wakes. It has massive lore in it and had probably the greatest impact on Gielinor. Had to be my favorite because of lore, combat, and all of these important characters being brought together. While Guthix Sleeps is probably in my top 5 with Lucian being on of my favorite Runescape antagonists.
....
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Learn to Fly!
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¨°•.¸
`*~*´
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¸¸,.•°'´
.....
`'°•.,¸¸
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`*~*´

21-Jul-2015 15:45:56

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

Posts: 7,043 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
My new top 15's statistics:

By dev:
Tytn - 4
John A/Srowl*y/Stu - 2
Paul/Ana/Wilson/Edam/Nexus/Liono/Dylan/Chris L/Ollie/Tom/Doctor/Hew - 1

Not completely accurate because e.g. most of WGS's design was Paul but eh.

By year:
2011 - 3
2006/2009/2014 - 2
2003/2005/2008/2010/2013/2015 - 1

Cool. Would have expected more from 2008. Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

24-Jul-2015 20:37:25

Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

Posts: 3,487 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Eren Lapucet said :
Just some quick thoughts on things lacking in new age quests: (sorry to intrude, Autum!).

No worries about interrupting, I finally finished my posts.

As for your points, I generally agree. But see this mostly as caused by one issue - resources and the lack of quests. More quests would let us see mortals more and build up to stuff. This could foreshadow more instead of series taking ridiculous gaps which often means swapping developers hands losing the small details. Also the lack of post quest dialogue is due to corners being cut and it being the first to go. I asked about that in the VIP Q&A, hopefully it gets addressed.

I would go the opposite way on the quest difficulty thing. We are getting too many grandmasters which are devaluing the rank. Since The World Wakes, 1/3 of quests we have seen are grandmaster. That goes to half of the main storyline quests. Thats not including the upcoming vampire grandmaster and how 3 of the 5 quests polled in the survey were grandmaster.

Not everything can be big events with no build up. It just makes no sense and I don't see why since quests are the one content all levels can enjoy . The way I see the answer is more quests. More quests equals meeting faction followers building to god quests so it feels like we earned them.

Also if you think Heart of Stone was rushed, thats because it literally was. Remember how the poll scheduled it for October? It was suppose to be a medium update, which from runelabs we know as 4 months. By the end of August, they were just starting work on it. It was released the back half of November. Thats around 2 months to 2 and a half at max it was worked on. It's missing from 25% to 50% of its dedicated development time and you can see it in the end result.

09-Aug-2015 22:47:49

Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

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Rondstat said :
Firstly, to Autumn Elite. Your counterargument is mostly a misunderstanding of my points, so I'll try to keep it brief(ish)

I do think there is a difference though, regardless of levels. I expect different things from finales and continuations regardless of how much lore it builds on. Birthright of the Dwarves and Missing Presumed Death even if they had the same levels have different aims and their success (or failure) depends on if they meet those aims.

I don't think it is as easy to classify some of this stuff as sequels especially with all the intercrossing of stories and continuity. Continuations don't mean sequels per say. Look at Marvel for good examples of that. Yes to some extent, I can see your thinking of how it could be a ROTM continuation.

But whilst it does dress two themes as you said, it doesn't to much extent. One dragonkin was seen for a brief section, which mainly was just exposition giving facts on Sliske's arc and TWW. The Stone of Jas is mentioned but again in reference to Sliske more than a ROTM arc. Also it could be argued whether that was a main unaswered question. But the vast majority of ROTM is not there or much smaller roles so I find it hard to see it as a continuation. The mahjarrat reduced to a subplot at best, factions like temple knights missing, 80% of what it was about not there so calling it a sequel seems wrong.

When compared to One of a Kind or Heros Welcome, it just isn't even on the same level of sequel.

It focuses on a lot of new or other content which is totally ROTM irrelevant. Main points are the Gods (DoC, WE1, TCC follow ups), Sliske and his plans (TWW reasoning and follow up) and Icthlarin (desert/ 2nd age lore).

I would see it as less than miniquest progress in terms of that arc so it puts that to one side.

09-Aug-2015 23:25:40

Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

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Now I agree the best stories have deep themes and MPD didn't. However I see this as by design.

MPD to me was the exposition quest. It sets up the story and all the info about it hints at that. Its a substitute TWW, allowing sixth age quest to not be grandmaster. Compare it to the avengers. Everyone in one place, seperates for their owns stories (well not Bandos or Armadyl), come together for the finale.

So the quest filled its purpose and what Ollie wanted it to do. By the end, we knew of the game and eclipse. Whether its enjoyable or memorable is immaterial. You didn't like it and I totally understand why. But that's not because Ollie is bad, he achieved what he was aiming for - you just didn't like what that was.

Remember I'm agree with your original point and whilst hard to compare quest because of their vast differences, I see the importance of themes. I would place DoC, TCC and Plagues End over MPD.

It's not like Ollie tried to do a theme but failed. He just created a quest without a theme. That isn't an inherent flaw from the beginning, themed quests tend to be better but a non themed could be good to. I'm not saying its good, I'm saying it was intensional. Ollie met his aims, the quality of the content is another debate.

In response to a few other things you said, its good to here you praise branches writing. Thats my next quest and honestly not seeing the hype. Hopefully branches will sit better with me or if not, Rowl*y has a shot to win me over.

As for writers, I'd put Stu as their best current story teller. Whether he will get his chance to tell a really epic story just depends on resourcex and scheduling. I really hope so. Also always nice to meet a John A appreciator.

09-Aug-2015 23:25:58 - Last edited on 10-Aug-2015 00:10:21 by Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

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I've thought of a better way to explain why I don't see MPD as a sequel to ROTM.

Think of Doctor Who, Legend of Korra or The Flash. Basically think of a tv show with a long running arc. Now there are episodes dedicated to the main arc but that doesn't mean all the rest is filler. Other episodes can tease or carry on the main plot without being about that plot.

Take The Flash. The main plot was about the Reverse Flash but other episodes after his first full outing expanding his story but weren't dedicated to him. It wasn't a sequel, casual viewers could still understand all.

This is how I see ROTM. A few bits referred to it - some parts of Sliske's exposition continued the tale on, characters from it appeared again.

But to call it a sequel, with all the new stuff and tied in other plot threads is streching it too far. You could equally make a case its a world event 1, death of chivalry, the world wakes, the chosen commander sequel. It just doesn't help or really fill that definition.

So probably less than 10% refers to ROTM and if it was setting up a new age, it was a lower priority. Without knowing your exact feelings what it handled wrong, I can't expand on that.

Again I'm not saying your wrong. I'm not discussing the quests level of quality and I'm sure you have valid complaints. All I'm saying is that they're weren't the quests main focus. Its main focus was set up not a sequel and whilst its lack of high requirements shouldn't let it get a free pass, it also shouldn't be blamed for not doing what it never intended to do.

Judge it for the quality whats there in the sixth age set up, not what isn't. In the end, its a bit of a repeat of my 5th vs 6th argument. Judge the quest not the age. Judge the content not whether you like the idea of it.

10-Aug-2015 00:43:50

Tyrragon
Jun Member 2023

Tyrragon

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My top five out of the ones I've done (which is to say, all but nine):

5) Branches of Darkmeyer
4) The World Wakes
3) While Guthix Sleeps
2) Fate of the Gods
1) One Small Favour Ritual of the Majharrat Balance in all things.

11-Aug-2015 04:27:20

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