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On the quest releases' problem

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Lord Bilrach

Lord Bilrach

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Even if Saradomin lost half his people at BoL, his army would be bigger than Armadyl's. Armadyl has only a handful of humans and the Aviansie, which are a seriously endangered species on the brink of extinction. It makes perfect sense to attack Armadyl, but what doesn't make sense is how Armadyl won. I just can't see it from a lore POV. Armadyl's troops are extremely few and don't know how to fight. Bandos has many thriving species that are very experienced in war.

07-Jul-2014 22:39:40

Athrenn

Athrenn

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Lord Bilrach said :
Even if Saradomin lost half his people at BoL, his army would be bigger than Armadyl's. Armadyl has only a handful of humans and the Aviansie, which are a seriously endangered species on the brink of extinction. It makes perfect sense to attack Armadyl, but what doesn't make sense is how Armadyl won. I just can't see it from a lore POV. Armadyl's troops are extremely few and don't know how to fight. Bandos has many thriving species that are very experienced in war.

I think that your bias against Armadyl is showing.

Never was it said that Armadyl's forces were weak or inexperienced at fighting, nor that they were smaller than Saradomin's post-BoL army - that's what you assume. Also, Bandos's troops weren't said to be better warriors individually than those of other races. The bandosians were strong in numbers, so kinda like Warhammer 40k's imperial guard.

Also, if Bandos was truly a military genius why would he underestimate Armadyl so badly? He fought against the guy in the God Wars and he failed to kill him then, did he really think that it would be any easier now? It makes way more sense strategically to attack an unprepared T3 Saradomin than a full strength T4 Armadyl.

08-Jul-2014 02:22:49

Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

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Speaking of the future schedule, is it plausible that we may get more details on the quest schedule in the future?

It would be nice, but

a] even as developers, we only know what's scheduled for this year, and that can change at any time,

b] when we're open about what we're hoping to do in the future, players have often taken that as a promise, and are disappointed/angry if things change (Rite of Passage and Dave's hope to have double-digit quests this year are good examples).

Power to the Players is especially making the release schedule much more volatile - needing to release the Elf City and elf finale quest this year has definitely had an impact on how many quests we could develop in parallel.


This could explain part of this years lack of quests. Given that it is billed as a long grandmaster, it probably will take the same resources as two or more smaller quests.

08-Jul-2014 14:42:51 - Last edited on 08-Jul-2014 14:44:11 by Autumn Elite

Loves Poetry
Feb Member 2023

Loves Poetry

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It does not surprise me that the amount of quests released has been going down gradually over the years. There are many reasons for this:

- The amount of time needed to create a quest is now significantly higher than in 2005. Graphics have become a lot more sophisticated and there is a lot more game content that can interact with a new quest that has to be dealt with. All this requires more development and more testing time.

- Expectations for quest quality are now much higher. A new master quest will not spark as much player interest as it did back in 2005. Master quests are now much more common, so new quests either have to add something special, or they need an extraordinary difficulty to spark players' interest.

- Jagex has become a much bigger company over the years. As Jagex kept growing, their focus changed. Quests have a relatively low return of investment. They require a lot of time, but will not keep players interested at the same level as a new minigame or new skill content. Quests are therefore less efficient and consequently get less resources from Jagex.

It is for these exact reasons that you can not expect 14 quests a year, but only 4 or 5.
Can this change? Yes. Jagex needs to realise that quests are the cornerstone of their game. There is not a single MMO that has a lore and quests like RuneScape. Jagex needs to build on that and continue expanding RuneScapes unique selling point. After all, good quests and in-depth lore are the reasons we choose RS over WoW or LoL.

08-Jul-2014 19:07:47

Lord Bilrach

Lord Bilrach

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@Athrenn

1) Bandos and Armadyl were allies during the God Wars. Armadyl pretty much relied on Saradomin for the duration and his only sizable loyal race was wiped out. It's not like he made a good name for himself there.

2) These Aviansie aren't from the God Wars and, because of Armadyl's order, haven't had a reason to fight anything. Thus no experience.

3) The humans, I admit, I can't say for sure if they had experience, but they're so few to be relevant and I can't see where they'd get it from.

4) They are obviously smaller than Saradomin's forces. Saradomin has four races under his control. Granted two of them are dying. He still has the largest number of humans out of any God. Armadyl has two races. One of them is the Aviansie, which are inexperienced from a lack of fighting and on the brink of extinction. The others are the humans, which he has very few of (granted the same is true for Bandos).

08-Jul-2014 19:41:44

A Mighty

A Mighty

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I think the answer to this can be found in Adventurer Lore. Remember that canonically, other players are experienced adventurers who aren't as strong as us, but they can still hold their own against most enemies. During we2, much more players were recruited by Armadyl than Bandos. So, perhaps it was all these skilled adventurers who helped sway the tide to Armadyl.
To those cursed by war and pest, Come into the light of Armadyl and rest. This is the law of Armadyl.

08-Jul-2014 20:52:48

Cthris
Dec Member 2023

Cthris

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Lord Bilrach said :
@Athrenn

1) Bandos and Armadyl were allies during the God Wars. Armadyl pretty much relied on Saradomin for the duration and his only sizable loyal race was wiped out. It's not like he made a good name for himself there.

2) These Aviansie aren't from the God Wars and, because of Armadyl's order, haven't had a reason to fight anything. Thus no experience.

3) The humans, I admit, I can't say for sure if they had experience, but they're so few to be relevant and I can't see where they'd get it from.

4) They are obviously smaller than Saradomin's forces. Saradomin has four races under his control. Granted two of them are dying. He still has the largest number of humans out of any God. Armadyl has two races. One of them is the Aviansie, which are inexperienced from a lack of fighting and on the brink of extinction. The others are the humans, which he has very few of (granted the same is true for Bandos).

Well we know from the bird and the beast that armadyl recruited mercenaries to fight, it was one of those choice things we got. As well bandis warriors are a lot weaker then they were during the god wars, we know this because in the goblin quest, when you face the ghost goblins, the older the generation the more powerful they were showing that bandos races are devolving.

As well many of bandos warriors are taught not to think, this puts them at a further disadvantage

So add up that armadyl had recruited a equal size army, the devolving of bandis troops and their lack of skill, as well as their resourcefulness in battle. This pretty much shows it was bandos' military genius that managed to keep them from loosing right away, as well as some merc he got

08-Jul-2014 21:29:34

Athrenn

Athrenn

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Lord Bilrach said :
@Athrenn

You're still making big assumptions. Armadyl and Bandos weren't allies throughout the whole of the God Wars, only towards the last few years when they both banded with Saradomin to forge the godsword. Until that point, we really don't know what their relationship was.

There's no reason for Armadyl's aviansie to lack fighting experience. Other than the stereotype that peace-preferring races are all weak and useless in a fight in comparison to violent races, there's no reason to believe that they wouldn't know how to fight.

While it's true that Saradomin has many races at his command, his battle against Zamorak was much more directly confrontational and probably resulted in heavy losses on both sides. Also, the fact that he recently acquired T3 would probably cause him to underestimate Bandos as a threat. If Bandos attacked Falador, he'd probably come to the defence of his people as swiftly as possible, maybe even without mustering the full extent of his armies first. This would have given Bandos the advantage since Saradomin would have never expected him to have such a cunning plan and would probably just assume that he was being a violent brute. This would have given Bandos a big advantage.

In comparison, risking everything against Armadyl - a foe whose strength was completely untested - would be a very unintelligent move. I'd expect it from a lesser general, but Bandos? He's supposed to be a lot more cunning and clever than that.

09-Jul-2014 18:41:52 - Last edited on 09-Jul-2014 18:42:35 by Athrenn

Lord Bilrach

Lord Bilrach

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Athrenn

Have to ask, where do you think the Aviansie were getting battle experience from? These new Aviansie have never been to war. Fighting is forbidden among them.

Saradomin has no idea that Bandos lost an tier. Also...Falador is where the white knights are. Saradomin wouldn't need to "summon an army". They're all right there. Not to mention Saradomin summoned all of those BoL soldiers on the spot. It's not like he needs preparation. Hell, Zamorak definitely wasn't prepared. He just got to Gielinor.

Armadyl's strength was tested during the God Wars. He couldn't lead on his own, was subservient to another God, lost one of his loyal races and then abandoned the other. This is why the others see him as weak.

09-Jul-2014 18:53:45 - Last edited on 09-Jul-2014 18:54:22 by Lord Bilrach

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