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Past holiday items for sale

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Sharp-shin

Sharp-shin

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Turksta said :
Yes, but Jagex has failed to deliver. So until that gets fixed, more and more players will ask for the older better holiday items. And i am not against this - why should players be punished because of Jagex's lack of effort into bringing out good holiday rewards.

Do you realize how easy it would be for Jagex to take advantage of thinking like this? Ever since they started focusing so excessively on MTX, they've been looking for ways to cut corners as much as possible, and one such way would be to copy-paste existing assets instead of making new ones. They could be intentionally making awful new holiday rewards to make players want older ones, so if you were a better person than that, you'd not give up so easily and lower your standards.


Turksta said :
I was one of those players who voted against it. Not because i do not want holiday items to return but because of the manner they intended to rerelease it. I for one do not want cheap copies of the items to be made. It would only further promote elitism and clutter up the game - which i do not want.

Sigh, I see you're still letting your bitterness towards elitists cloud your judgement.

Alright Turksta, if you started replying to me again prior to reading this, I'd like you to stop and answer this first: can you get over your bitterness towards elitists and focus on the people who care about the historical value itself?

If your answer is yes, no problem, we can continue as normal if you really mean it.
If your answer is no/you don't answer (and thus I assume your answer to be no), it'll be pointless for us to continue our conversation because your focus is on the wrong place, and I'll stop after I've responded to these posts of yours (because you didn't have the chance to answer yet), until/if you can get over it.
"Volat Accipiter libera est; venandi sua natura est."
~Accipiter striatus

31-Oct-2018 11:28:49

Sharp-shin

Sharp-shin

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Turksta said :
With that logic, it can be argued that newer players gaining access to the older cosmetics will not make or break a veteran's decision to quit playing the game.

I assumed my reply to be straightforward, but since it apparently wasn't, here's it over:

Getting some optional cosmetics will not make or break someone's decision to stay playing the game or leave it; what can break that decision though is losing trust in the company that's running the game, because if you can't trust them, how can you know that you aren't going to be betrayed/taken advantage of/exploited etc in more ways in the future as well?


Turksta said :
New players fit the category of any players

And so do old players; "any" includes everyone after all, unless a restriction is added to it (which there wasn't in the original quote that you agreed on as well).


Turksta said :
Well i hate to break the news for you however Jagex have already done a lot of things that go against that stance of yours. Historical value adds unique to the game. Inconsistency of bringing in newer rewards doesn't though.

If I truly care about something, I'll keep fighting for it even if there are hardships/obstacles along the way, and game integrity (which as said, includes historical values) is what I truly care about, as it ensures enjoyable long term gaming experience.


Turksta said :
That is certainly not the case:

*snip*

You had all that patience to post those quotes, but not the actual link to the source? Some of those quotes don't even talk about the rewards, just the event itself. We're talking about the rewards here.

If the quotes that actually talk about the rewards are real though, I'd be curious to hear what their thoughts are now, after their short term satisfaction wore off.
"Volat Accipiter libera est; venandi sua natura est."
~Accipiter striatus

31-Oct-2018 11:28:56

Turksta

Turksta

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"It seems to me like you're still only talking about "rare" as "small in quantity", even though I explained that in certain contexts like this, it doesn't mean that, instead simply meaning a discontinued item. Some discontinued items may become small in quantity, but an item can be rare because of discontinuity, while still being large in quantity.

Plus, like said earlier, if Jagex didn't intend this, they would've changed it over a decade ago already; so old is the game and for so long have discontinued items existed."

Just because an item is discontinued does not mean it should always remain discontinued. Lets take a look at runescape's timeframe. You and I started the game when? Back in 2007 lets say. The game begun in 2001. 2001 to 2007 is only 6 years. We are now in 2018. 17 years after the game begun. 17 years is a long time and almost 3x the age of the game when we first begun playing the game. Back in 2007 there wasn't a need to rerelease holiday items. i mean the items were fairly new and almost everyone had them. Everyone was running around in chicken outfits and santa outfits. However now we are at an era where most players are new players and started playing the game after say 2011.
Therefore, most players do not have most of the older rare items and would like their hands on it as the newer holiday rewards do not compare. Back then, a few players wanted the snow globe because they missed out on it. Mod Edam denied them that chance back then as it would lose its sparkle and would be unfair for those who originally got them. However, they still released nice rewards such as the christmas ghost outfit. Fastforward to 2016, the Jagex mods rerelease the snowglobe and newer players including ironman have access to the snowglobe. The morale of the story is times have changed and its time newer players get to enjoy the items.

31-Oct-2018 12:59:04

Turksta

Turksta

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"You really shouldn't let elitists have that kind of an impact on your perception of things; elitists are always going to exist, but there are people like me out there as well, who don't care about bragging, but that of the historical value itself. Short term temporary satisfaction is outshadowed by long term appreciation, because if something is easily available, it'll quickly wear out."

Well unfortunately for you elitists do exist and do not want these items to return simply because of bragging rights. They do not wear it or use it ever but for the sake of bragging do not want others to have it. Historical value is always there and doesn't get replaced. The snow globe can only be obtained currently from the 2007 and 2016 Christmas event. Those players such as yourself obtained it in 2007 and you kno that so the sentimental value is higher for you than it is for a newer player as they don't have the fond memories of completing the event first time around back then. Jagex could make said items harder to obtain. However, i wouldn't be in support of that as the items were originally obtained quite easily. Perhaps you should get yourself a partyhat if you care about historical value that much :)

31-Oct-2018 13:13:58

Turksta

Turksta

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"Do you realize how easy it would be for Jagex to take advantage of thinking like this? Ever since they started focusing so excessively on MTX, they've been looking for ways to cut corners as much as possible, and one such way would be to copy-paste existing assets instead of making new ones. They could be intentionally making awful new holiday rewards to make players want older ones, so if you were a better person than that, you'd not give up so easily and lower your standards."

No matter how hard i try i cannot stop Jagex from committing deceitful acts such as aggressive MTX. I myself do not take part or spend a penny on mtx so you can't put the blame on me for the actions of Jagex. However as unfortunate as it is, people do take part in those card events e.g Plague Doctor, Death Lotus etc and money does more things to Jagex than my suggestions could. I've suggested great holiday rewards (E.g Halloween Basket) many many times but there's only so much i can do. At the end of the day Jagex is in charge and not me. I don't believe i am "giving up" as you say it as i continue to suggest great holiday rewards :)
If Jagex doesn't listen to me or deliver great content then again, why should players suffer from the laziness of Jagex. I'd rather players have the opportunity to obtain older rewards if it means having an enjoyable experience again :)

31-Oct-2018 13:21:14

Turksta

Turksta

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"Sigh, I see you're still letting your bitterness towards elitists cloud your judgement.

Alright Turksta, if you started replying to me again prior to reading this, I'd like you to stop and answer this first: can you get over your bitterness towards elitists and focus on the people who care about the historical value itself?

If your answer is yes, no problem, we can continue as normal if you really mean it.
If your answer is no/you don't answer (and thus I assume your answer to be no), it'll be pointless for us to continue our conversation because your focus is on the wrong place, and I'll stop after I've responded to these posts of yours (because you didn't have the chance to answer yet), until/if you can get over it."

It's got less to do with my bitterness towards elitism and more towards the bitter manner Jagex were planning to release holiday items. Would you like it if there were grey versions of the bunny ears and chicken suit (oh wait). I for one wouldn't as it wouldn't solve anything. Those players who want the santa outfit want a red santa outfit not a grayed out 2nd clone form of it. It would only further clutter up the game like i mentioned before hand and it wouldn't stop the same players from wanting the original instead of the clones. Moreover, we already have clones (Squirrel Ears/ Bunny ears etc). I'd rather clones be of different yet similar items than a recoloured form of the exact item (with the exception of a Black santa outfit).

As for historical value, the history behind it doesn't get destroyed only added onto as they could be brought back in a manner that adds onto the storyline of the holiday quest.

31-Oct-2018 13:34:14

Turksta

Turksta

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"Getting some optional cosmetics will not make or break someone's decision to stay playing the game or leave it; what can break that decision though is losing trust in the company that's running the game, because if you can't trust them, how can you know that you aren't going to be betrayed/taken advantage of/exploited etc in more ways in the future as well?"

Well i got bad news for you. Those who lost trust in the compant have already left long ago. For those who still play, it doesn't affect them to the point of quitting the game. Again, getting some optional cosmetics will not make or break someone's decision to stay playing the game or leave it, however removing some exclusive cosmetics won't either. I don't recall players quitting over the shadow drake rerelease, and if they have then it's quite a stupid reason to quit a game and they were likely already on the verge of quitting it prior due to boredom of the game etc


"And so do old players; "any" includes everyone after all, unless a restriction is added to it (which there wasn't in the original quote that you agreed on as well)."

Indeed but there's no problems with older players as they have the items to begin with. It's the newer players who are missing out, not the older players.


"If I truly care about something, I'll keep fighting for it even if there are hardships/obstacles along the way, and game integrity (which as said, includes historical values) is what I truly care about, as it ensures enjoyable long term gaming experience."

If you care about the games health then your priority should be meeting the needs and wants of the majority of players not just a minority of players. This ensures players stay and/or join and in the long term ensures a more enjoyable gaming experience. Right now the elitism, and the "all about me" factor isn't healthy for the health of the game.

31-Oct-2018 13:41:13

Turksta

Turksta

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"You had all that patience to post those quotes, but not the actual link to the source? Some of those quotes don't even talk about the rewards, just the event itself. We're talking about the rewards here."

A simple forum search will do: "Christmas 2016"
Some of those quotes do not talk about the rewards, however they are the responses of veterans who are glad the event has returned :)

That's not to say that players aren't happy with the rerelease of the snow globe though:
"getting to relive that and get a snow globe on my ironman was just the right amount of nostalgia. Thanks for another great year Jagex team!!! ""

At least i provided some evidence to disprove your "Neither are happy" argument.

31-Oct-2018 13:46:52

Turksta

Turksta

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Also from the reddit FAQ of the poll:

"Why not make them buyable only by accounts that existed during the event?

We'd like to offer a chance for newer players to get items they weren't around for originally; don't forget that for some of these items 'newer' includes accounts that are ten years old! "

A player with 20 points (20 supports): "
I would be supportive of it if was the original item not a modified item
, and the original form the Loyalty Store would only be available to those who had an account during this time period.

How it is right now, im going to vote no
"

Just like me, this player doesn't support elitisim or original owners having bragging rights.
If the poll was polled differently i.e the originals were released instead of cheap knock offs, then the outcomes would be different and have more than Just 51% voting for it.

Also: "As someone with bunny ears keepsaked, i'm happy they will be visually different, but still disappointed they will be available."
A player responded:
"By visually different, I'm assuming they will remake them with graphics up to today's standards......which means
the fakes will look better than the legitimate ones
...."

That problem also arises: the newer "fakes" have the possibility of looking better than the originals, so the original owners will be upset regardless of whether the original gets released or a similar.

31-Oct-2018 13:55:26

Sharp-shin

Sharp-shin

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Turksta said :
It's got less to do with my bitterness towards elitism and more towards the bitter manner Jagex were planning to release holiday items.

Well then, as I explained, for not answering my question, I'm not going to continue responding to you after this until/if you can get over the elitists as an obstacle to compromises.

Since it doesn't seem like you understood why it matters so much, I'll leave you with this: across all these kind of threads, it's become very clear to me that, when discussing the compromises, people who actually want the items to use for fun don't care about elitists, whilst those who focus on the elitists over the items themselves are pretty much impossible to compromise with, instead resulting in these endless circles, like the one we were just having.

So yeah, I'm not going to waste more time in the circle, sorry. Lmk if you change your mind.
"Volat Accipiter libera est; venandi sua natura est."
~Accipiter striatus

31-Oct-2018 14:33:17

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