RuneScape Forum Archive | BTS43 Combat: Evolution Cont.

Painted Celt

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Here's an idea, how about a Shielding threshold/ultimate ability on a 5 minute timer that would cause a 1 minute effect where half of the damage negated by a player's protection prayer would be stored as a value. When the storing effect ends, a healing effect would then be applied to the player, restoring health over 30 seconds equal to the stored value. This would translate to a 75% Protection Prayer for 1 minute every 5 minutes, but would not decrease the opponent's 'KO' potential by lowering their maximum hit during the ability. The delay would also make the ability require strategy for effective use, as one would need to allow their health to fall relatively low prior to the healing effect being applied in order to save the maximum amount of supplies from the ability effect (afterall, the healing effect would do no good if the player had full health anyways). Of course, if the player removed their shield at any time during that abilty's duration, any remaining effect should be canceled.

I think that ideally, players should need to stick with a stance (Dual-Wielding, 2h-Wielding, Shielding) in order to gain its full benefits. I think that it's a bit of an issue that players can use a 2h-Weapon for high damage, then switch to Shielding in order to heal with little sacrifice. I think that adrenaline should probably be drained when switching stances (Dual-Wielding, 2h-Wielding, Shielding), though not when switching between the different styles of the combat triangle (Ranged, Melee, Magic) as long as any weapon(s) switched to remain of the same stance (Dual-Wielding, 2h-Wielding, Shielding). [Sorry if I was a bit redundant in listing the different stances/styles above. I was trying to be as clear as possible to avoid confusion between what I was referring to as 'stances' and what I was referring to as 'styles'.]

08-Mar-2013 19:01:52

Painted Celt

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Another thing that should be addressed is how Magic and Ranged aren't really capable of being truly balanced with Melee in the current system. I know that a lot of the EoC was an attempt to make the combat triangle more even, but I don't think that they can ever be on equal ground when Melee requires more investment in training TWO skills (Attack and Strength) while Magic and Ranged only require training in one skill.

I think that serious consideration needs to be put into developing Ranged and Magic equivalents to Strength. What I would personally do is remove base damage boosts from being directly included in either Ranged or Magic, making them equivalent to Attack in that they only increase accuracy and access to higher improved weapons (or in the case of Magic and Ranged, ammunition/spells as well). [Note that referring back to my earlier suggestion for an improved combat formula, spells can be treated as contributing weapon-damage, like Ranged ammunition does in-game. Spells may already be treated like Ammo in the game, but if that is true, it is hidden from the combat equipment interface. It would be nice for the stats of spells to be more transparent to the players.*

I think that two new skills should then be added, Will and Focus. Will would become the partner skill to Magic, adding magical damage, new abilities, and occasionally unlocking new equipment as it increases, just as Strength does for melee. In the same ways that Will would be the partner skill for Magic and Strength is the partner skill for Attack, Focus would be the partner skill for Ranged. I really think that this is a concept that could be valued by the player-base.

08-Mar-2013 19:02:04

Painted Celt

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There would be some unique concerns with implementing Will and Focus though. Because these new partner skills would be in part separating functionality from the primary skills, Magic and Ranged, it would not be right for players that have trained their Magic and Ranged skills to suddenly lose the vast majority of their damage potential with those sides of the combat triangle. Therefore, upon adding Will and Focus, players should not necessarily start with level 1 in those new skills. Rather, what I think is fair is for players to have half of their experience in Ranged or Magic (up to 13,034,431 xp at 26,068,862 xp or higher) set as their experience in the new skills. In other words, if a player had exactly 13,034,431 xp in Ranged, which is level 99, before the update, then upon the update day, they would log in to find that they already have 6,517,215 xp in Focus as well, which is approximately level 92.

If Magic and Ranged are to be equal to Melee, then this type of update will need to be done someday. I can't honestly think of a better way to do it, and I honestly think that the player-base would applaud such a change as long as it isn't sprung on them by surprise.

08-Mar-2013 19:02:17

Painted Celt

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By the way, I also have concerns with the way armor currently functions in-game. I'll copy some of my posts from another thread so that you can get an idea of my what my thoughts are on it. You might get the sense that I was railing a bit on you and your co-workers. Yes, some of it is negative feedback, but please try to take it as constructive criticism and don't be turned off by it. All things said, I was very frustrated at that time of writing.

The posts are directly below.

08-Mar-2013 19:02:28

Painted Celt

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Yes, there have been huge problems with the armor/accuracy formula since the EoC arrived. Jagex tried to solve a few aspects of the issue by adding an exponential curve to armor/accuracy bonuses, but in doing so, they created a host of new problems and resolved very few.

The exponential curve patch showed a clear lack of understanding of what the problem with armor and accuracy is in the EoC. Currently, armor/accuracy seems to work with, for lack of better words, all-or-nothing mechanics. When fighting a foe in Runescape now, you will tend to either hit 100% of the time (or very close to 100%) or miss with the vast majority of your attacks. There is very little middle ground.

The same goes for armor blocking your opponent's hits. You will either block a huge percentage of your opponent's hits or slim to none. This creates a situation where armor, like Bandos (I cannot comment on Nex armor, because I do not own it) has very little practical use in the game. Allow me to explain. Against weak to moderately powerful foes, the armor does indeed block a large number of hits, but overall provides little advantage to a player with access to suitable substitutes, such as Bunyips and Soul Split, or even healing abilities alone in some cases.

So, one might think that armor would then shine against powerful foes, where one could not hope to survive via those mentioned substitutes alone; this is where the biggest issue with the current system arises. Against foes where armor should be highly advantageous, such as Skeletal Wyverns and Bosses, it does nothing. It serves entirely as a maximum health boost, blocking no hits at all. Bandos armor will not block even a single Ranged attack from a Skeletal Wyvern. This means that your best option to endure a Slayer task there is to wear MONK ROBES and use protect/deflection prayer or Soul Split. That's right, in many cases while Slaying, the best equipment is MONK ROBES!

08-Mar-2013 19:02:39

Painted Celt

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Also, I have tested both level 1 Leather armor and level 65 Royal Dragonhide against the KBD. Because the K*D will NEVER miss with his magic attack against either set of armor, you can literally gain the same number of kills with either setup. There is no real advantage to using the higher level set at all. That's right, you might as well wear Leather armor. I wish that I was trolling.

08-Mar-2013 19:02:52

Painted Celt

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[In response to a message about how the exponential update hurt junior players:]
Yeah, that's especially true in Dungeoneering, ----. I already used a Primal Maul before the exponential armor update, but I also sometimes used a Doomcore Staff, which is a level 80 weapon. Judging from my accuracy with a Doomcore Staff (I also have 98 Magic) compared to the Primal Maul, EVEN AGAINST MONSTERS WEAK TO MAGIC, the message from Jagex is clear: GET TIER 11 OR GET OUT!

It's really harsh to low-mid level players, and overall it hurts group activities and versatile equipment use for almost everyone.

08-Mar-2013 19:03:10

Painted Celt

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Mod Dean, I think that you should seriously consider reverting the exponential armor/accuracy update. After seeing it in the game, I am fairly certain that it was not a move in the right direction. I think that using the old linear formula, higher tier equipment would still be in demand if armor and accuracy were changed to provide advantages in more circumstances. As it is, players tend to wear equipment like void and monk robes because they do not notice any advantage from armor bonuses when fighting foes that never seem to miss or when fighting as part of a large group, and they don't feel that they need armor against the foes that can actually be blocked.

I don't think that a big part of the problem was that there was not a big enough gap between Dragon and Bandos or Bandos and Torva. We need more gradual, reliable increases in blocking potential, not sudden spikes from 0% of hits being blocked to 50% or higher of hits being blocked. We need things like damage absorption that can be counted on. If we always noticed some benefit of increased armor, no matter what we are fighting, then we would be willing to try and obtain the stronger armors. The advantage doesn't have to be huge, players will always pay more for the best equipment, the advantages just have be visible.

Do you understand what I am saying?

08-Mar-2013 19:03:23

Painted Celt

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In response to your earlier reply, Du Eldrvarya, I agree that making attack a non-melee specific skill might be a suitable way to balance the triangle. I remember discussing something like that years ago.

Both solutions have advantages and disadvantages. Making Attack into a non-melee specific skill may be a simpler solution, but it could also be very frustrating to Rangers/Mages with low Attack skill. They would be put at an immediate disadvantage from their current standing, until they managed to train their Attack skill up. Because Attack already exists in-game, providing starting xp to offset this becomes so much more complicated than in the solution of adding Ranged and Magic equivalents.

Adding new Ranged and Magic equivalents to Attack, and setting their starting xp using the method described earlier, has several advantages unique to it. For one, this solution would provide two new combat skills for players to train while achieving level 99 Slayer and 120 Dungeoneering, reducing the gain of 'wasted xp' in other combat skills that are inevitably maxed out during the progress of maxing both Slayer and Dungeoneering. And as another advantage, it is less harsh to Rangers and Mages that have not significantly trained their Attack level.

08-Mar-2013 19:03:49

Painted Celt

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Take this fictional player below as an example.
Bob has 99 Ranged, 80 Magic, but only 1 Attack. Clearly, Bob does not use melee on his account.

In the solution where Attack becomes a non-melee specific skill, Bob will suddenly find that he is unable to use his Ranged and Magic at all effectively. Where Bob previously could enjoy hunting Nex with his trusty Zaryte bow, he no longer has the accuracy to hit a level-12 minotaur. He will probably find that he is unable to use any weapons for Ranged, except for the weakest chargebows and so on.

In the solution where Focus and Will are added, Bob is granted a starting level of around 92 Focus and 73 Will. Being granted these starting levels is probably fair enough, considering that Bob most likely trained his combat skills at pre-EoC rates. Bob may notice a slight decrease in his combat potential, but nowhere near as significantly as with the Attack solution. In this solution, it seems quite likely that Bob will see the starting xp provided as reasonable compensation for this lost potential, and will rationally accept the update as necessary for rebalancing. In this solution, new players are put at no real disadvantage either, as improved xp rates in the EoC will easily make up for the additional training for two new combat skills.

08-Mar-2013 19:03:57

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BTS43 Combat: Evolution Cont.