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Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,168 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I am not angry or mad that the Devs aren't telling us anything. Actually, I clearly mentioned I would vote for Taming if I had to pick one because it is the most oldschool-ish and rewarding among the 3 given choices.

OSRS didn't tell us what pets and what special abilities our new pets from Taming will be, but this is perfectly fine as they have told us the more precise concept on how they come up with it - Summoning, most of us are familiar with it for years through RS3. Essentially, OSRS devs have told us this skill is similar to Summoning but we befriend permanent pets we summon instead of temporary familiars. They also have all kinds of passive, buffs etc too, so whatever passive, buffs etc proposed on Shamanism can very well be just put in Taming.

Shamanism can never see a more meaningful part of Invention as in RS3. Augmentation and perks in RS3 are designed based on the well established, robust combat system, EOC fully polished years before the arrival of the then new skill. Every perk intended to be useful and not just for RNG fun from RS3's invention, obviously are useful because they improve EOC abilities and adrenaline management. OSRS can never achieve this purpose because the Legacy combat is a nothingburger combat system. That said, we already know potentially we can store items in our tamed pets, have them fight for us, scavenge items for us etc, because we have seen their familiar counterpart working in RS3 for almost 15 years.

Invention is an elite skill, of course it is meant for high level players to reap the benefits of the end products, however, all those perks are not specific to any level of players as EOC is not limited any level of players.

28-Mar-2023 16:42:53 - Last edited on 28-Mar-2023 16:52:06 by Dilbert2001

Lelouch Vi B
Jan Member 2017

Lelouch Vi B

Posts: 2,111 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.

Shamanism can never see a more meaningful part of Invention as in RS3. Augmentation and perks in RS3 are designed based on the well established, robust combat system, EOC fully polished years before the arrival of the then new skill. Every perk intended to be useful and not just for RNG fun from RS3's invention, obviously are useful because they improve EOC abilities and adrenaline management. OSRS can never achieve this purpose because the Legacy combat is a nothingburger combat system. That said, we already know potentially we can store items in our tamed pets, have them fight for us, scavenge items for us etc, because we have seen their familiar counterpart working in RS3 for almost 15 years.

The irony in this statement is that you claim the Shamanism perk system couldn't be a fraction of what it is in Invention because legacy is so shallow compared to EOC. Meanwhile if you actually look at most of the top tier, most used perks in Invention, many in no way require EOC to work:

Biting: causes a max hit.
Precise: Still just boosts damage.
Relentless: Chance to reduce special energy consumed when using a spec.
Impatient: Chance to increase special energy on hit.
Ruthless: Still just boosts damage on kill.
Slayer perks: Still just boost damage toward their targets.
Slayer task perks: Literally the exact same as EOC.
Crackling: Literally still just works.
Absorbative: The same.
Lucky: Nothing changes here.
Aftershock: Works the same with or without EOC.
Devoted: Yeah still just works the same, as there are monsters that deal damage through protections in OSRS.
Flanking: Bonus damage to targets not facing you.
Ultimatums: Reduced special energy used by 10%.
Venomblood: Works the same (though may be OP in OSRS and need tuned).
Every single skilling perk: Works the same.
Every single generic perk: Works the same.
Mobile: Reduces run energy consumption

So what? Like 4 major perks would need reworked/left out? Now with added
[SARCASM]
Warnings for those less astute!

Archaeology Elite Skill Suggestion

28-Mar-2023 22:42:20 - Last edited on 28-Mar-2023 22:59:17 by Lelouch Vi B

Lelouch Vi B
Jan Member 2017

Lelouch Vi B

Posts: 2,111 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Most the the perks that don't translate well can be easily rewokred to do so:

Lunging: Increased accuracy with specials used in Stab style. We can create one of these for each of the melee styles too.
Charoming: Attacks that can hit multiple targets can hit additional targets. Things like the Crystal halberd and ancient spells still have target caps.
Brief Respite: Chance to not delay next attack/eat after eating.
Shield Bashing: Chance to deflect a small amount of melee damage when wearing a shield.
Planted Feet: Small boost to accuracy the longer you stand still.
Taunting: Enemies stay aggressive for twice as long. (amazing for slayer)
Energizing: Max hit reduced, but your special recharges faster.
Bulwark: Slightly reduces opponent's max hit on you when wearing a shield. (Dinny B!)
Clear Headed: Chance to reduce duration of stuns.


So seriously, what is it about EOC that makes it the only way to create a broad array of impactful perks?


Original message details are unavailable.

Invention is an elite skill, of course it is meant for high level players to reap the benefits of the end products, however, all those perks are not specific to any level of players as EOC is not limited any level of players.

You're just literally wrong here. There are many, many perks in Invention that are locked to high level players, because they're simply impossible to roll with low-mid level invention. Some of the best perks like Relentless and Fortune have a hard basement of lv 94 due to ancient gizmos. Many perks simply cannot be achieved due to the sheer rarity of rolling them at lower levels (just so you're aware, yes, your invention level dictates the rarity of perks rolled.) Many of the best perks/combinations are so statistically unlikely to roll, that they might as well not exist at lower levels. Seriously, show me the method for Biting 3 at lv 70; I'll wait.



The way you talk about how this could never work in OSRS make me question if you even play it... Now with added
[SARCASM]
Warnings for those less astute!

Archaeology Elite Skill Suggestion

28-Mar-2023 22:42:53 - Last edited on 28-Mar-2023 23:50:35 by Lelouch Vi B

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,168 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Lelouch Vi B

You absolutely missed the point. Legacy mode has nothing. OSRS equipment are designed with such a nothing system. If you put all those ability perks designed for EOC in Legacy mode, all kind of balance will be destroyed.

The way you talk about how EOC abilities and perks could work in OSRS make me question if you even play RS3...

29-Mar-2023 01:34:04

Lelouch Vi B
Jan Member 2017

Lelouch Vi B

Posts: 2,111 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
@Lelouch Vi B

You absolutely missed the point. Legacy mode has nothing. OSRS equipment are designed with such a nothing system. If you put all those ability perks designed for EOC in Legacy mode, all kind of balance will be destroyed.

By what standard? Where are your numbers? Are you implying that EOC was designed over 10 years ago with the express intent to make Invention later on? Because you imply an existing combat system can't be balanced around Invention perks (or vice versa). So either you believe EOC was purposely made slightly too weak over a decade before Invention, because Jagex knew Invention would eventually release and bring it up to the point they wanted. Or combat systems can be balanced with new perks/gear... Which sounds more likely? But by all means, try to convince me. Take every single perk I just described and tell me, in detail, why each one couldn't work. Because just saying "no that doesn't work." is about as compelling an argument as "because."

You strike me as the kind of person who believes EOC is the greatest combat system to ever bless a videogame, but also uses Revolution...

"The abilities are the most dynamic and effective way to control your character during combat! I need the feeling of being entirely in control of my combat!"


>"Ohh so you use Full Manual?"


"What? God no! I use Revolution! You think I wanna be there hitting all those buttons? No, let the game handle that for me."



Original message details are unavailable.

The way you talk about how EOC abilities and perks could work in OSRS make me question if you even play RS3...

Pardon me while I dust of my RS3 comp cape... I play both games regularly. I use EOC in RS3 and legacy in OSRS. Both work. I'm curious as to what username I can find you under on the OSRS hiscores. Now with added
[SARCASM]
Warnings for those less astute!

Archaeology Elite Skill Suggestion

29-Mar-2023 01:45:34 - Last edited on 29-Mar-2023 02:10:07 by Lelouch Vi B

Lelouch Vi B
Jan Member 2017

Lelouch Vi B

Posts: 2,111 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.

You absolutely missed the point. Legacy mode has nothing. OSRS equipment are designed with such a nothing system. If you put all those ability perks designed for EOC in Legacy mode, all kind of balance will be destroyed.


I'm genuinely confused how you believe that the perks can't work in the legacy system, when they quite literally work in the legacy system. Here, let me show you:

Equip a Precise gizmo. Then, go into your combat settings and switch to "Legacy Mode." Now here's the cool part, so don't get lost on me; The perk still works! Isn't that just bonkers?? Literally every perk that doesn't directly reference an ability or Adrenaline still work! So it's almost like you could just change the Ability/Adrenaline perks to work with the legacy system (or remove them altogether, who cares?) and suddenly, you have a fully functional perk system in Legacy Mode. And the best part? The game servers didn't suddenly detonate due to a lack of balance. Man, learning is cool!

And man, you're seriously gonna have a hard time explaining to me how the skilling perks and generic perks suddenly stop working when you switch combat modes, a feature that the perks don't even interact with. Can't wait to hear why Honed can't make you catch fish faster if you only kill goblins with auto-attacks... Now with added
[SARCASM]
Warnings for those less astute!

Archaeology Elite Skill Suggestion

29-Mar-2023 02:14:33 - Last edited on 29-Mar-2023 02:19:06 by Lelouch Vi B

Rishinger IV

Rishinger IV

Posts: 34 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
You're angry that the Devs aren't telling you every single specific detail of a skill that is currently in Early Concept Development... I wonder if you get mad at restaurants when your waiter tells you that you can't taste your food before it's been made... Such absolutely absurd expectations;

That analogy doesn't work....at all.

When you go to a restaurant and order food, they tell you exactely what you're going to be eating, what it's served with and any extra things you can do to modify your meal.

With this new skill they're telling people the names for the potential new skill and then saying "pick which one of these you want in the game!"

A better analogy would be like going to a restaurant and they say "You can pick between chicken, beef and fish for dinner."
Then when you pick chicken, it comes out as a pasta with chicken in it, but you actually wanted something like a schnitzel instead.

I get that they're being vague to avoid spending too much time developing something that will never get used, but you can't expect people to vote on a new skill when you aren't even telling them what's going to be in it!

29-Mar-2023 02:39:28 - Last edited on 29-Mar-2023 02:40:12 by Rishinger IV

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,168 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
Original message details are unavailable.

You absolutely missed the point. Legacy mode has nothing. OSRS equipment are designed with such a nothing system. If you put all those ability perks designed for EOC in Legacy mode, all kind of balance will be destroyed.


I'm genuinely confused how you believe that the perks can't work in the legacy system, when they quite literally work in the legacy system. Here, let me show you:

Equip a Precise gizmo. Then, go into your combat settings and switch to "Legacy Mode." Now here's the cool part, so don't get lost on me; The perk still works! Isn't that just bonkers?? Literally every perk that doesn't directly reference an ability or Adrenaline still work! So it's almost like you could just change the Ability/Adrenaline perks to work with the legacy system (or remove them altogether, who cares?) and suddenly, you have a fully functional perk system in Legacy Mode. And the best part? The game servers didn't suddenly detonate due to a lack of balance. Man, learning is cool!

And man, you're seriously gonna have a hard time explaining to me how the skilling perks and generic perks suddenly stop working when you switch combat modes, a feature that the perks don't even interact with. Can't wait to hear why Honed can't make you catch fish faster if you only kill goblins with auto-attacks...

There are no abilities and adrenaline in legacy mode. You can't pretend there are and put lipsticks on a pig and expect everybody else to think it is human.

If you want to have abilities in OSRS combat, create one with solid foundations and remove legacy mode if you like, and then you can work on building the new combat system with perks among other things... but wait... this is exactly most OSRS players don't want. Don't they hate EOC because it is not the simple nothingburger legacy mode?

29-Mar-2023 02:53:10 - Last edited on 29-Mar-2023 02:54:06 by Dilbert2001

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