forums.rs

Forums

Forum Help Accountability

Quick find code: 278-279-106-66245832

of 7
Immortalized
Mar Member 2006

Immortalized

Posts: 34,061 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hi, I have a simple proposal.

I think moderators on Forum Help should be required to reply to each report.

I am proposing this because in the past:

1. I have submitted claims to Forum Help
2. My posts were hidden, indicating they have been received
3. I observed no action taken regarding my claim
4. I did not see a response explaining the lack of action on my report

This puts me in a limbo state, where I do not know if by human error my claim was skipped, or if the person who decided to work my claim just did not personally feel it was warrantable. I am left with a few options:

1. Submit a duplicate claim, potentially getting myself in trouble for "spamming" Forum Help
2. Accept the original issue I reported is OK and never report such behavior again

I think this leaves a serious gap in accountability here.

Allow me to explain with a hypothetical situation:

Let's say that someone is blatantly RWTing on the forums. Obviously, this is against the rules, and I decide to report this person to forum help. My post is hidden, but no action is taken. In my opinion, choosing to not act on this report is akin to allowing people to RWT. I would therefore very much like to submit an issue to Forum Moderator Review, because I think Jagex seriously needs to review why this incident did not result in an action against the person who is trying to RWT, and might suggest that better guidelines be communicated to forum moderators or more consistent application of the rules. However, because I did not receive a response, I am left in the dark here with no way to bring the issue to light, and RWT continues to occur and I am at risk of getting in trouble for trying to report it again.

This is what I mean by lack of accountability. If we do not have a response to our reports, we do not know who decided to work the report, and ultimately have no way of communicating to Jagex that review is needed here.

I see this as a huge gap in accountability and potential for abuse. Buy Zemomarks / Chromatic Partyhats safely here

08-Feb-2022 15:59:46 - Last edited on 08-Feb-2022 16:01:12 by Immortalized

Immortalized
Mar Member 2006

Immortalized

Posts: 34,061 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I think the underlying issue is "selective enforcement" of rules.

This is a subjective topic, and I have no intention to name/shame anyone, just want to identify real ways to address the potential for abuse here. As far as I know, there are none, since the nature of how Forum Help works allows the person acting on the report to selectively decide if they want to work the issue or not. And another forum moderator can simply choose not to work a report once they see that the post was hidden, allowing selective enforcement to occur.

Here are the various ways I think this could be addressed:
- require that reports are acknowledged and communicate that they are working it
- require that things reported to Forum Help are reviewed by more than 1 person
- allow users to submit duplicate reports to Forum Help if no response is received

I don't think all of these solutions are practical, but curious of others thoughts about this matter. Buy Zemomarks / Chromatic Partyhats safely here

08-Feb-2022 16:08:57

Roddy Piper
Jan Member 2011

Roddy Piper

Posts: 13,751 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Quote below is from the forum help thread page 1 post:
>------------------------------------------------------


Need an explanation or clarification? - If you don't understand the action that was taken or not taken, you can ask for an explanation or clarification. Depending on the time and context, this will be done as promptly as it can be, but please be patient. However, you can only do this once per issue, if you continue to post, this will be considered a misuse of this thread.

08-Feb-2022 16:31:22 - Last edited on 08-Feb-2022 16:32:26 by Roddy Piper

Immortalized
Mar Member 2006

Immortalized

Posts: 34,061 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Roddy Piper said :
Quote below is from the forum help thread page 1 post:
>------------------------------------------------------


Need an explanation or clarification? - If you don't understand the action that was taken or not taken, you can ask for an explanation or clarification. Depending on the time and context, this will be done as promptly as it can be, but please be patient. However, you can only do this once per issue, if you continue to post, this will be considered a misuse of this thread. Thanks for pointing this out. I think this could help in some situations, but if you are in 'limbo' unknown if an action even occurred does it warrant posting in this manner? I interpreted that as, you know that your report was worked on, and confused about the result, whereas I am considering also situations where you don't even know if it was worked on to begin with. I guess to clarify better, how do we know an issue has been worked on, if there is no confirmation message indicating so? Do we just assume they are worked on if hidden, because I thought that it was immediately hidden regardless if worked on, for privacy reasons not necessarily to indicate it had been worked on, just received.

If we are able to assume that hiding a post indicates it was worked on, then yes, I agree this probably resolves the issue I am seeing, although a little inconvenient since the player must intentionally make a follow-up asking for more information. But in my opinion, it is not really fair for us to assume that the report has been processed, simply because the post is hidden and we see no action. For example, for a large thread it may take a FMod hours/days to address and I might be just upsetting them by asking for a follow-up, potentially affecting their diligence in fulfilling the report because now I have "rushed" them by assuming they did not actually work it. Buy Zemomarks / Chromatic Partyhats safely here

08-Feb-2022 16:51:49 - Last edited on 08-Feb-2022 16:57:26 by Immortalized

Mrs Ana

Mrs Ana

Posts: 8,998 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hey, Immortalized.

Back in June of 2021, I created a thread with a similar suggestion as yours Forum Help V2.: Communication ; however, the idea wasn't well-received so I decided to give it a lock. Archaeox's post on that thread of mine does point out a potential flaw in this idea, though.

I do not want to bombard your thread with my responses regarding this topic, but I am going to quote what I added on Archaeox's thread because it's related :) :

Response #1
Response #2
Response #3

Let me know what your thoughts are ^_^ .

08-Feb-2022 21:38:02

Mrs Ana

Mrs Ana

Posts: 8,998 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Roddy Piper said :
Quote below is from the forum help thread page 1 post:
>------------------------------------------------------


Need an explanation or clarification? - If you don't understand the action that was taken or not taken, you can ask for an explanation or clarification. Depending on the time and context, this will be done as promptly as it can be, but please be patient. However, you can only do this once per issue, if you continue to post, this will be considered a misuse of this thread. To be honest, if F-Mods did provide further details about a report -- either actioned or not -- this section of Forum Help wouldn't be required. I'm fully aware of the cons as I quoted above, but I'm just commenting on this specific example.

08-Feb-2022 21:43:35

Loki
Sep Member 2011

Loki

Posts: 65,226 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'd have to disagree to be honest. Some things that get reported on FH are simple title changes or locking gravebumped threads. Forcing FMods to have to post responses to reports like this is just a waste of time for them.

As the thread already states, if someone wants clarification, then they can ask for it. I can't comment for the green team, but having seen most of them in action in the past, I'm sure they wouldn't mind explaining their decision for action, or lack of action, as long as it's within their guidelines to reveal their action.
• »‡« •
Adam
• »‡« •

Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts.

09-Feb-2022 11:04:17

Rooh
Jan
fmod Member
2006

Rooh

Forum Moderator Posts: 40,589 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
As Loki mentions, the bulk of Forum Help posts are for things like title changes, lock or move requests etc. which generally don't need a response.

There's also a potential downside to leaving detailed replies about other reports:
"FH Stalking".

We all know this happens sometimes: someone will be arguing with someone else on a thread, one of them reports it to FH, the other person sees the report, or the FMod's reply and it just makes the situation worse.

Even though we wouldn't mention anyone by name in this situation, it doesn't take a detective to figure out which thread or post we're referring to if we leave a reply.

Obviously that doesn't always happen, but it's worth mentioning.
Who's the cat that won't cop out when there's danger all about?

09-Feb-2022 12:50:16

Quick find code: 278-279-106-66245832 Back to Top