RuneScape Forum Archive | Morvran's Prefer/Block

Feb

2021

Yewnock

Posts: 1,216 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

AoDude said :
@WiseThoth As I am sitting here, wondering if I am being completely asinine or if you just don't understand what I am trying to convey. (I understand people have a hard time following my thoughts/reasoning, its a problem I face every day.) I acknowledge that there is most likely a misunderstanding between the two of us. Either you don't follow me, or I don't follow you, or neither of us follows the other completely.

In any event, I am going to discontinue the debate here, in an effort to preserve this thread. (It is almost half capped already) If you would like to talk further, my pm is always on and you are welcome anytime. Or if you find it necessary we can create a new thread to discuss it further. I agree, we have already taken more posts than we should from this thread. I'll post my response simply because I already have them written (I take surprisingly long to write responses, lol, which kind of explain why my posts tend to be so long; so I read your previous posts and started writing my answer on notepad - by the time I finished them, after quite a few interruptions, I saw your new post). But those will be my last on this topic. I don't think neither of us are being asinine, we simply have different views and are trying to convinve each other of them

.

Also, just to make it very clear. I have no intention at all of being offensive or anything of that sort; and I'm really sorry if it sounded like that in any way. We are just bringing arguments to each other

.

My pm is also usually on, if you'd like to discuss this further.

06-Sep-2015 08:19:26 - Last edited on 06-Sep-2015 08:21:16 by Yewnock

Feb

2021

Yewnock

Posts: 1,216 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

AoDude said :
I still don't think you understand what I am trying to say properly... My definition is the method to minimizing time needed to get 5.2. Here is an over exaggerated example to illustrate the difference between what you are saying, and how my minimizing works.

Player A (Over-Exaggeration of Your Method): Goes to the abyss and gets 200m all combat stats, because lol fastest rates. After spending some time, the goal was achieved, but after finishing you discover you made exactly 0 gp, and have no money to work on any artisan skills.

Player B (My Method): Goes to RotS/QBD/Arraxor/Slays/Dung/Farm runs between everything/... and after spending a larger upfront cost of time, finishes 200m combat/Dung/Slay with a significant amount of cash ready to buy the rest of the buyable skills right then and there. What? Your player A was simply an (admittedly exaggerated) example I used to show how the point of efficiency is minimising time and how pvm'ing is better money than skilling methods even ignoring the xp. Your player B, in fact, was pretty much what I mentioned just after as a more realistic case: Yewnock said :
Ofc, that's a most extreme situation, which should be avoided. If you do not wish to merch/alts, then you should plan carefully how to distribute your time between arax and rots so that you do not waste that combat xp, also taking into account the combat xp gained from slayer.

Going back to the original question: on best task set up and using slayer contract on magic xp (for simplicity), sheet shows 200m slayer gives ~255m melee xp, ~85m range xp and ~165m magic xp. Still plenty of room for pvm combat xp (doing only arax for 15b, for example, would only give ~140m melee xp). You player A is clearly not minimising time needed for 5.2 (note that "time needed" naturally includes time required to make money), so it's not efficient on either of our definitions.

06-Sep-2015 08:19:33

Feb

2021

Yewnock

Posts: 1,216 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

However, I'm glad that on your efficient player B you included combat based money methods, already a change from this AoDude said :
Combat based money making methods devalue the combat xp reward, because they have their own combat xp rewards. It is rather inefficient to snowball your combat skills just to train your artisan skills. Though I don't understand why you included qbd and farm there since those are significantly slower than rots/arax

. As I tried to illustrate with my exaggerated player A style example, rots and arax > farm for money even if you completely ignore the combat xp they give. AoDude said :
Based on the above example, the assumption is made you hit your ge limit with the profit of 15m. Yes it took you 1 minute to make the transaction, but your limit doesn't renew for 4 hours, so you did not make 900m/hr; you made 3.75m/hr (15m/4hrs) which is both completely reasonable and an exceptional flip (18% profit is unheard of, most work off of
<10%). Actually, the 15m flip was not limited by the ge buy limit; someone decided to cut my buys by a huge margin. Also, I guess over 10% margins may not be that common for flipping, but quite easily obtainable while investing. AoDude said :
Lets assume we had 4 items with the same exceptional flip profit (and the gp to back it): Using 4 slots to buy; and 4 slots to sell (maxing out your ge slots for the 4 hours) you make 60m for those 4 hours or simply 15m/hr. That means that your maximum rate should rarely exceed (if ever) 15m/hr (with that capital); and will assuredly be less than 60m/hr. Firstly, you are not at all restricted to 4 items in 4 hours. However, that's not the point. What is most relevant is that you are not restricted to sit in the ge doing nothing during those 4h. The effective time it takes you is only 1 minute.

06-Sep-2015 08:19:39

Feb

2021

Yewnock

Posts: 1,216 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Say you have 200m cash and that you can make 13 flips worth 1m each in a day, which I presume is realistic enough. Maybe you had to wait the 4h limit for some, or maybe they were different items. Or you used all the money for one of the flips for a 0.5% return, and on another you used 10m and had 10% return. It is really not important. What is important is that on that day you stopped getting xp or w/e you were doing for 13 minutes to put and take those offers, but went back to those things after. And in the end of the day you profited 13m with those flips.

Doing that every day, in 2 years you would have profited a bit over the 9b we were talking about earlier. How long did it take to make? Well, it took you 13 minutes on each day, so in total 154h. Going back to my definition of efficiency, I don't need to worry about calculating the theoretical gp/h. It is only relevant that it took a lot less time to make the same money than the other methods. The "60m gp/h" rate is merely a (sometimes misleading) tool for comparison with other methods.

Going back to the caches: in 2 years you get a bit over 100m div xp doing cache everyday, taking 12 minutes/day. So it took 142h in total. Getting that xp by normal div would take close to 1k hours. It's quite obvious that cache is better than normal div. And the 700k cache xp/h versus the 100k normal div xp/h rates serve to illustrate that. However, It is naturally not possible to get 700k div xp in 1h using consistent methods. But you were doing other stuff in between caches, so it's not relevant.

Fine, now you may start questioning that, similar to how cache may not be enough to 200m div by the time you are 200m all other skills, 13m gp/day is not enough. Well, we ignored the fact that after some time, you have more money (and more experience) to merch with (both flip and invest), which can really increase profits. But I do not want, nor is it necessary for the example, to go into that.

06-Sep-2015 08:19:47 - Last edited on 06-Sep-2015 08:22:22 by Yewnock

Feb

2021

Yewnock

Posts: 1,216 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Back to the actual purpose of this thread.

I got a crystal shapeshifter task today, and since no one had tried it yet, I decided to test it. I did it with mage. They give 1270 slayer and 2686 combat xp per kill (wiki is wrong on the combat xp). I did about 210 kills/h with usual set up (but my titan died on start of task, forgot to pay attention to timer).It took me some time to test spots for good respawn locations, so I'd say it's possible to get up to 230-240 kills/h. So that would make them 618k-645k combat and 292k-305k slayer xp/h, which is actually surprisingly good compared to the other most recent tasks. But not yet good enough to be on top 5. Though their 12 weighting needs to be considered, now that the top 5 aren't enough for positive points balance. Or maybe it's possible to get 250 kills/h with practice so that it can replace waterfiends. The only issue would be charms.

I'm not happy with that test though, I'll try again if I get another task. And I'd expect range to be a bit slower and melee to be significantly slower, since their respawn spots are far from each other.

07-Sep-2015 00:41:23 - Last edited on 07-Sep-2015 01:43:55 by Yewnock

Jun

2008

Seeker

Posts: 65,655 Emerald Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I tried a task with melee and it seemed much slower than magic with the shapeshifters occasionally stunning me for up to 7 seconds (can be freedomed, but I've never had that long stuns when maging), cancelling channels and clearing DoTs

Not done any better than 215 kph yet with magic, but it should be doable.

They don't seem to award any combat xp if someone else comes by and attacks the same shapeshifter as you though (slayer xp is still given however).

07-Sep-2015 02:41:35