RuneScape Forum Archive | Morvran's Prefer/Block

Feb

2021

Yewnock

Posts: 1,216 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

AoDude said :
Combat based money making methods devalue the combat xp reward, because they have their own combat xp rewards. It is rather inefficient to snowball your combat skills just to train your artisan skills. Hm... again I'm a bit confused. But in the way I understood this, it's quite the opposite. On that situation I assumed you were bossing for the gp and not for combat training. Using Lucario's wording, xp is a passive bonus from getting gp from bossing, like slayer/runecrafting give a gp passive bonus. Pvm'ing is not enough to get 200m xp all combat skills, like skilling is not enough gp for all artisan skills. (Rots is actually ~300k magic/ranged xp/h, which is not horrible, and, in fact, I think might put rots close to arax in efficiency if choosing between both for money making).

Again, I might have misunderstood, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

05-Sep-2015 05:54:49

Feb

2021

Yewnock

Posts: 1,216 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

About merching, I didn't mean you can sit on ge for one hour and in the end be 60m richer (though it is possible, and doesn't necessarily require huge initial capital, it's not necessarily the best thing to do); 60m gp/h was the extrapolated rate. Something in the lines of flipping something for 1m which requires one minute to make then take offer (not necessarily 1 minute to fill); which means effectively 60m gp/h. That was just a very low estimate to have as a "base", and also makes things simple since it's 1m/minute. I'd expect the actual gp rate from merching at a given time to be a lot higher, but it's also a lot more complex to calculate, and not even relevant because of market fluctuations.

Regarding alts, yes, Jagex have already said many times that using alts is not allowed to manipulate minigame or seasonal hiscores results; but that interacting with your own alts is fine. Which means, you are allowed to make money on alts while skilling on your main then trade that money to it; so that money making takes "0 time" on your main. That doesn't mean I agree with it (in fact, I'm actually against it); however, as long as none of your accounts break any rules, it's not against the rules and it's widely done.

As for 07 alts, yes, it's worth doing them. Currently, the best (afk) method for rs3 alts is dwogres, which requrie some prep time and are only ~1.8m gp/h. Wyverns on 07 also require some prep time, but are ~5m eoc gp/h. And there are even some methods which require almost no preparation, like cballs on 07 which are ~1.5m rs3 gp/h and can be set up in a day. I do agree with you that swapping sounds fishy, but it's not against the rules. And note how those are only the afk methods.

05-Sep-2015 05:54:52

AoDude

Posts: 1,694 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Yewnock said :
Regarding alts, yes, Jagex have already said many times that using alts is not allowed to manipulate minigame or seasonal hiscores results; but that interacting with your own alts is fine. Which means, you are allowed to make money on alts while skilling on your main then trade that money to it; so that money making takes "0 time" on your main. That doesn't mean I agree with it (in fact, I'm actually against it); however, as long as none of your accounts break any rules, it's not against the rules and it's widely done.

Ah, I misunderstood you. The way you were combining alts/merching in the previous post, I thought you were saying you made 60m/hr by breaking ge limits w/ them.

Also, just because I can kill 1 kal'gerion demon in 12 seconds, does not mean I can really kill 300/hr. Just because you can make 1m in 1min an a flip, does not mean you can really make 60m/hr. If that is what you truly meant, that is a complete false sense of capabilities.

Let me define efficiency in terms of 5.2b/Runescape: Getting all skills to 200m xp, using all of the fastest methods, at relatively the same time so that you do not train any skill excessively after 200m to finish the remaining skills.

Assuming no dxp/bxp:
200m xp in Prayer costs between 1.2b-5b
200m xp in Herblore costs ~5.5b
200m xp in Summoning costs ~820m
Just for those 3 skills: ~7.5b-11.3b

Assuming the following rates from you: RotS 300k magic/ranged xp/h, 6.5m/hour
It will take between 1153.8 and 1738.5 hours to pay for all of those skills, and you will have gotten between 346m and 521.5m xp. This already in itself implys that combat xp far outraces the gp required for artisan skills, let alone the further combat xp required to get 200m slayer.

Yes, when you are looking at the micro, it seems like it is a good deal to take the xp. But when you look at the macro, you find the gp is worth far more.
AO
Deputy-Owner :
The Nexus CC

05-Sep-2015 16:39:26

Potato on Rs

Posts: 1,764 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

AoDude said :

Yewnock said :
If more consistency is wanted, zulrah can be like 18m eoc gp/h (well, it could, I haven't kept track of prices)
Swapping is questionable at best. Also it is highly inefficient to level up an osrs account just to generate cach for you rs3 account. (this is under the assumption that zulrah is more of an end game boss to generate that much gold. I don't play OSRS, so I could be wrong, but that would be silly balancing if it wasn't)

It's actually extremely efficient lol. You can make 10m+/h with only 80-85 mage/range and void, which is free and afk. Doesn't take long at all. Swapping is also very easy since there are multiple trustworthy places that swap.

05-Sep-2015 18:36:23

Feb

2021

Yewnock

Posts: 1,216 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

AoDude said :
Also, just because I can kill 1 kal'gerion demon in 12 seconds, does not mean I can really kill 300/hr. Just because you can make 1m in 1min an a flip, does not mean you can really make 60m/hr. If that is what you truly meant, that is a complete false sense of capabilities. It is only a "complete false sense of capabilities" if you are not able to consistently kill a kal'gerion demon in 12 seconds (and start killing the next immediately after). For example: I am always able to get a Kree kill in 33 seconds or less when not switching (and he takes 27 seconds to respawn); since I can do that every kill, the extrapolation of 1 kill/minute is, quite precisely, what I get per hour on average: 60 kills/h.

That's the reason I decided on 60m gp/h. For example, last week I found an item which worked out well and I profited 15m (the capital required was ~80m); let's say it took in total a minute to put and collect the offers. Based on that, I could extrapolate the gp/h to be of 900m gp/h. That would have been unrealistic, in my opinion; since I'm not able to get that (at least with that capital) consistently. Investments are on a similar situation. You can make huge amounts of money from them (with enough capital you can make over 100m per investment); but usually they only work when there is a reason for what you are buying to rise later, and that reason is not always there (or too hard to see). 1m flips, on the other hand, are not hard to come by. So I thought it would be fine to have a 60m gp/h value as a "minimum" just for comparison. Some people I know actually value their time in 1b gp/h merching; I perfer to leave it lower.

In case your problem is with not being able to sit at ge and being 60m richer 1h later; my answer is that, as long as you are able to get enough money from 1 minute merches to get 5.2, then it's not relevant (should cache not be considered 700k xp/h only because it's restricted to 12mins/day?).

05-Sep-2015 22:17:51

Feb

2021

Yewnock

Posts: 1,216 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

AoDude said :
Let me define efficiency in terms of 5.2b/Runescape: Getting all skills to 200m xp, using all of the fastest methods, at relatively the same time so that you do not train any skill excessively after 200m to finish the remaining skills. If that's your definition of efficiency, then I guess what you are saying somewhat makes sense. I use a definition which I think makes clearer to decide on "fastest methods", specially when comparing methods that give xp in more than a skill or also give money (the case we are discussing): minimising time needed to get 5.2.

Notice how I do not include the "so that you do not train any skill excessively after 200m to finish the remaining skills" condition, because it's not relevant if your objective is to minimise time. For example: let's say you are already 200m all skills but really low melee xp (it's not relevant for the example that it shouldn't happen). Melee at the abyss is ~700k melee xp/h, while choosing optimal melee xp slayer tasks you can get an average of 750k melee xp/h. It's not relevant that you are "wasting" the slayer xp, since you are still saving more time doing melee through slayer than training melee alone.

Something similar could be said for the gp. Say you already have 200m xp all combat skills. Assuming you don't merch/alts; should you not do pvm for money just because you already have 200m all combats? Should you like farm herbs (~4m gp/h, and like 90k xp/h) or do mud runes (~3m gp/h and ~50k rc xp/h) instead? (also, didn't I say rots was ~8m gp/h? That estimate already discounted supply costs).

05-Sep-2015 22:17:54

Feb

2021

Yewnock

Posts: 1,216 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Making same calculations as you: (I'll just consider 9b needed because the range is not relevant for the example)

I don't want to dicuss farming xp rates and the 1 herb run/1h30h restriction. So I'll give these methods a handicap and assume mud runes are 4m gp/h and 50k rc xp/h. With that, making the required 9b would take 2250 hours and grant 112.5m rc xp. Let's say rc is 200k xp/h and let's ignore the fact that you would make profit from rc (another handicap to mud runes). That would save you 562.5h of rc training; so making the 9b would require effectively 1687.5h. Rots would take only 1185h to get that money on 8m gp/h. Even assuming 6.5m gp/h it would only take ~1385h of rots.

So you see, even with all those handicaps to the skilling method and comparing to the slower gp/h boss (remember arax is bettrer money, but less consistent - which is not relevant for huge amount of kills - and lower xp/h, like 120k xp/h), pvm'ing after 200m all combats for money makes the 9b in significantly less time than the skilling method even when considering the skilling method xp (I mentioned mud runes because it was the highest listed non-combat method on the rs wiki money making guide, lol - skilling is not good money, so the sources of info are not that extensive).

Ofc, that's a most extreme situation, which should be avoided. If you do not wish to merch/alts, then you should plan carefully how to distribute your time between arax and rots so that you do not waste that combat xp, also taking into account the combat xp gained from slayer.

Going back to the original question: on best task set up and using slayer contract on magic xp (for simplicity), sheet shows 200m slayer gives ~255m melee xp, ~85m range xp and ~165m magic xp. Still plenty of room for pvm combat xp (doing only arax for 15b, for example, would only give ~140m melee xp). Therefore, using contract reward on xp does not interfere with 200m xp overkill and is more efficient than gp considering these methods.

05-Sep-2015 22:17:57

AoDude

Posts: 1,694 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Yewnock said :
AoDude said :
Let me define efficiency in terms of 5.2b/Runescape: Getting all skills to 200m xp, using all of the fastest methods, at relatively the same time so that you do not train any skill excessively after 200m to finish the remaining skills. If that's your definition of efficiency, then I guess what you are saying somewhat makes sense. I use a definition which I think makes clearer to decide on "fastest methods", specially when comparing methods that give xp in more than a skill or also give money (the case we are discussing): minimising time needed to get 5.2.

I still don't think you understand what I am trying to say properly... My definition is the method to minimizing time needed to get 5.2. Here is an over exaggerated example to illustrate the difference between what you are saying, and how my minimizing works.

Player A (Over-Exaggeration of Your Method): Goes to the abyss and gets 200m all combat stats, because lol fastest rates. After spending some time, the goal was achieved, but after finishing you discover you made exactly 0 gp, and have no money to work on any artisan skills.

Player B (My Method): Goes to RotS/QBD/Arraxor/Slays/Dung/Farm runs between everything/... and after spending a larger upfront cost of time, finishes 200m combat/Dung/Slay with a significant amount of cash ready to buy the rest of the buyable skills right then and there.

Player A: Then has to go find methods to make up for the money missed out on, and either has to waste a significant extra amount of time PvMing for money (spending roughly the same time as Player B did to start with

in addition to the time already spent

) or has to settle for slower skilling methods to generate the cash/resources for the artisan skills.
AO
Deputy-Owner :
The Nexus CC

06-Sep-2015 03:08:29 - Last edited on 06-Sep-2015 03:14:30 by AoDude

AoDude

Posts: 1,694 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Yewnock said :
For example, last week I found an item which worked out well and I profited 15m (the capital required was ~80m); let's say it took in total a minute to put and collect the offers. Based on that, I could extrapolate the gp/h to be of 900m gp/h. That would have been unrealistic, in my opinion; since I'm not able to get that (at least with that capital) consistently.

Based on the above example, the assumption is made you hit your ge limit with the profit of 15m. Yes it took you 1 minute to make the transaction, but your limit doesn't renew for 4 hours, so you did not make 900m/hr; you made 3.75m/hr (15m/4hrs) which is both completely reasonable and an exceptional flip (18% profit is unheard of, most work off of
<10%). Lets assume we had 4 items with the same exceptional flip profit (and the gp to back it): Using 4 slots to buy; and 4 slots to sell (maxing out your ge slots for the 4 hours) you make 60m for those 4 hours or simply 15m/hr. That means that your maximum rate should rarely exceed (if ever) 15m/hr (with that capital); and will assuredly be less than 60m/hr. (on average with that capital you should be making 4-8m/hr assuming you perfectly make an average of 5-10% and don't make any blunders where you lose money.)

In this example the required capital would be 320m, and to achieve 60m/hr you would need to make 240m in those 4 hours, or 75% profit flips. Obviously unreasonable to make that much in that time with that much, unless staking. And GG if you lose that stake, lol.

Realistically you would have to be flipping 2.4b-4.8b gp to be literally making 60m/hr (10-5% profit respectively)
AO
Deputy-Owner :
The Nexus CC

06-Sep-2015 03:52:35 - Last edited on 06-Sep-2015 04:18:15 by AoDude

AoDude

Posts: 1,694 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@WiseThoth As I am sitting here, wondering if I am being completely asinine or if you just don't understand what I am trying to convey. (I understand people have a hard time following my thoughts/reasoning, its a problem I face every day.) I acknowledge that there is most likely a misunderstanding between the two of us. Either you don't follow me, or I don't follow you, or neither of us follows the other completely.

In any event, I am going to discontinue the debate here, in an effort to preserve this thread. (It is almost half capped already) If you would like to talk further, my pm is always on and you are welcome anytime. Or if you find it necessary we can create a new thread to discuss it further.
AO
Deputy-Owner :
The Nexus CC

06-Sep-2015 04:47:06

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