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heretic hary

heretic hary

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You may post at your leisure.

Place bets as to whether Of Warfare or Dr Amalarik will post here first, before the other.

Oh, and this is the last thread in the Easter Roleplaying In-Game forum invasion.

20-Apr-2014 16:22:37 - Last edited on 20-Apr-2014 16:24:10 by heretic hary

Aivas

Aivas

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Despite the joke, I have never been fond of wrestling, as I prefer to use the natural God-given weapons of teeth, fingers to the eyes, and fists to the throat that we all cherish and adore, when weapons fail. I'll give this a read after coffee, though.

20-Apr-2014 16:42:48

Aivas

Aivas

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heretic hary said :
(For this reason I hold MMA in great respect, as it actually constitutes a genuine martial art. Practitioners regularly fight other people, and thus train fighting ability the best way possible as each fighter is used to resistance from the opposing force. This is sadly lacking in many "martial arts" institutions today, and gives validity to the claim that many "martial arts" in the classrooms or gyms do not hold up in the streets.)

I am saddened by the lack of open-mindedness in those parentheses, but it would take another guide just to explain why. I'll contact you in-game and see if I can explain why the 'proven effectiveness' of MMA is mostly just the byproduct another fad, like Krav Maga was in the last decade and SEALS training was the decade before. Go back even farther and you'll find all kinds of fads in the martial arts world ranging from Silat to Karate to boxing to Taekwondo.

That's not to say the skillsets aren't effective- oh no. There are a lot of techniques that come from older as well as modern systems that I have great respect for. But I've come to realize that techniques used in MMA, like many of the skillsets or arts before it, have been bastardized, watered down, and then stretched to act like a be-all, end-all fighting system.

Before I offend you all some more and have shoes thrown at me, let me explain that unless your preferred fighting system is regularly crippling or killing the participants, it is not being practiced in the arena or dojo as an effective martial art. And that transfers to a gaping hole of complacency when you attempt to apply your preferred system to combat.

To keep it short:

Is MMA a great way to learn how to beat the snot out of someone in a consensual fight? Yes.

Is MMA a cool way to experience a lot of different techniques and culture? Yes.

Is MMA combat? No.

Will MMA prepare you for combat? No.

20-Apr-2014 17:31:04

Aivas

Aivas

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As for the guide itself, good material. Realize, though, that even in the 14th century the military encouraged predictability from its soldiers in combat, and that certain techniques will have been emphasized and taught to the troops because of their effectiveness-to-learning-difficulty ratio was well as their predictability, and not entirely because of their effectiveness.

20-Apr-2014 17:44:58

Doc Doctor

Doc Doctor

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Well, Khaine, you wonderful man. It's about time somebody made some proper combat guides. Now, of course, comes the advice. The techniques listed on this thread are fairly effective, but I like to take the description of the granite maul and apply it to martial arts. Namely, that simplicity is the best weapon.

It's almost impossible to just step up within takedown range of an opponent without proper setup. You need to create an opening so that you won't be struck. A casual punch will do. You should remember that every part of your body is a potential weapon, and whenever an opponent makes an attempt to guard an opening or attack, they leave /at least/ one vital area open. The trick is to attack in such a way that they are forced into such a situation, and then as Khaine likes to say, attack /just as/ they are in the middle of their movement so they cannot counter. Speaking of which, there is in fact a counter for every possible attack your opponent can use. You just need the right technique, placement, and timing.

Now the main thing I would say this guide should improve on, are the death blows. Most of those moves either leave you wide open for a counter, or are unlikely to hit. A normal old punch to the jaw trumps all of the listed death blows. If your foe has a brain, then they should be knocked out instantly by a proper knock on the jaw. Then, you win. The liver shot is also very useful. So many fighters leave their right flank unguarded when they attack, and it's quite easy to counter their attack and land a good hit there. The liver shares nerves with the autonomous nervous system, and getting struck there results in a sudden increase in blood pressure, making the body shut down. No amount of willpower can stop it. It takes a second for the effect to kick in though, mind you.
Always have a backup move in case your first attack fails, and be prepared to sieze upon any opportunity that presents itself.

I think that's enough basic advice for now.
“Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”

20-Apr-2014 17:51:19 - Last edited on 20-Apr-2014 18:09:41 by Doc Doctor

heretic hary

heretic hary

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That this drew criticism from you both, is good.

Oh, and I've noticed the post that ends with a line of a technique, and then doesn't show the rest of it. Never finished that section in the original either.

Of Warfare,
Good to know that about MMA, I've definitely overvalued it.

Amalarik,
Indeed, that's why I organized this for the Sicarius based upon distance: the first section had to do with the approach and being able to reach their arms, the second their body, and the third, on the ground. As someone who used to practice Shinsei Kenpo (though that was many years ago), I've felt this lesson - I'll be sure to mention it in the large guide. (Not this one, but the one in progress.)

Reading that last part of your second paragraph brought a smile to my face, as it reminded me of a similar saying by the treatises made by the fight-masters of the German school of fencing. My own version of it is that every attack has it's counter, and every counter has it's attack . Certainly, there are no unbeatable moves, just failures to respond to an attack or counter correctly, and then put oneself in a position to be hit.

I didn't name these techniques, I'll admit I never really understood why they were called ''death blows''. If you have any insights as to why they might have been called such in the 14th century, speak - that includes you, Of Warfare.

Certainly agree with the last paragraph as well, that was the point of a flow chart: writing out likely actions before an rp fight, and thus be prepared for failed attacks and attacks.

20-Apr-2014 20:58:30

Doc Doctor

Doc Doctor

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I suppose I'll expound a little more about martial arts, since it's late and I'm feeling frisky (not THAT sort of frisky).

The martial arts are all very broad, and cross primarily four borders. For sport, culture, self defence, and killing. Of course, in a world with fireball tossing mages and backflipping knights, you'll want the killing arts. With those, there won't be any wasted movement or excessively complicated techniques. No fancy stances, katas, or aikido flips. Think of how the tiger attacks, and how it evolved to become a killer. It snaps necks, tears throats, suffocates, and eviscerates. No art there, that's killing plain and simple, as it should be, without limitation.

One could think it's easy for an experienced swordsmaster to take on the tiger, what with the simple matter of chopping through its skull or skewering it with a spear when it lunges. In reality, however, that is not the case. It hides, stalks, and comes up from behind when you least expect it. Humans have had mainly one real advantage over it. A human's specialty lies within creativity and adaptation. To be the perfect predator, there must be a perfect balance between primal brutality and modern intellegence.

Don't get me wrong, techniques are great if the situation calls for them. As great as raw direct power is, most fighters agree that the punch which knocked them out was the one they didn't see. Therin lies the balance. Smarts to keep that blow hidden, and ferocity to give it sufficient killing force. If they won't see the attack coming, then there is no reason to water it down with useless movement. Each situation has a perfectly appropriate move. Being restricted by the concept of what most consider to be "martial arts" may only serve to hold one back from finding that perfect kill.

Now, when it really comes down to learning about this sort of thing, I'd point most roleplayers in the direction of Alfred Klios. He can teach a thing or two about efficient killing.
“Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”

03-May-2014 06:47:40 - Last edited on 03-May-2014 07:20:47 by Doc Doctor

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